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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

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Original poster

Looking for advice from music teachers/parents

25 replies

firsttimer12345 · 06/05/2018 12:50

I currently teach 2 evenings a weeks and 1 day at the weekend. Since having DD in August, this has been my main source of income and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. I am looking at taking on more students over the summer to increase to 2-3 full days worth.

At the moment, I have no contract with any students. They often cancel last minute with poor excuses or turn up early/late. I can no longer be as flexible now as I have in the past and looking at implementing a contract to coincide with both our house move and the new laws on storing personal information.

I've also been looking into using an online booking system (my music staff) and thinking about asking students to book for a term in advance.

Just wondering how other teachers tackle this and how parents feel about the level of commitment I'm asking for. Most weeks I end up £50+ down from students not turning up and we just can't afford this anymore. It also hinders the progress of the students and in turn, their interest in learning.

OP posts:

Kutik73 · 06/05/2018 16:52

DS's piano teacher is super organised. She has two DCs and her schedule is based on her kids' school schedule. She publishes annual lesson schedule as soon as she knows her DCs' school schedule. So we all know when is on and off in a year advance. She also counts all the lessons in a year and divide the total by 12 then charges us monthly fixed rate, so we all know how much to pay through a year. Sometimes one or two more or less lessons in a month but the monthly rate stays the same as they are all calculated from the total number of the lesson for the year. If a lesson is cancelled due to student's convenience, we accept no refund. I think it's totally fair. But the teacher offers make-up lessons though clearly states not to abuse the system and it may not be guaranteed as it totally depends on the availability, and she is pretty busy already. But the teacher tries to make time, and often uses half term/weekends for odd make-ups. But she is 100% unavailable during winter/spring/summer holidays as they are her family time and usually she is away with them. We respect her privacy.

On the other hand, DS's ex violin teacher was incredibly disorganised. He was a sort of type who couldn't plan anything in advance so everything was last minute. He usually emailed his lesson schedule termly, but it stayed pretty flexible and changed a lot. We often didn't know when the end of a term concert was on, or if it was on, and were informed a couple of days or a day before, or in the morning! He also often forgot to send us invoice and we received one a good few terms after or two invoices for two terms at once.

For someone who likes to know what's coming next like me, it's a lot less stressful with the piano teacher's approach. Worse still, the disorganised teacher's instrument became DS's first study, hence more important, so the uncertainty became quite worrying...

Original poster

firsttimer12345 · 06/05/2018 19:25

Thanks @Kutik73, that's really helpful. I hadn't thought about billing monthly but it would make sense having the regular income over the long holidays.

How does it work if she cancels? Does she just refund if you can't make them up? I can see wedding invites etc. Causing an issue if teen dates given out a year in advance.

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Trumpetboysmum · 06/05/2018 19:29

Ds's teacher for trumpet doesn't have a schedule but is incredibly generous with his time . If I cancelled ( which I don't think I ever have) I would be more than happy to pay it's his living !! He sometimes cancels then we don't pay but he will often rearrange anyway . He also fits in ad hoc lessons in the holidays and when Ds is having a crisis
The piano and singing lessons are through a music centre and so if we cancel yes we pay again as I expect . If they have to cancel we don't .
I would definitely appreciate as a parent an organised approach and you should definitely charge if they don't turn up . It's your living

Original poster

firsttimer12345 · 06/05/2018 19:40

Thanks @Trumpetboysmum, that's a similar approach to what I have now but it's really hard to be quite as flexible as I used to be. I'm of course very happy to make up missed lessons but half of my students have cancelled today without payment, I assume because of that beautiful sunshine I and DD have missed out on, with no chance to rearrange. We can't afford to have anymore child care to be more flexible and don't think it's fair on DH for him to spend more than 1 day of his weekend on parent duty when we should be sharing the load. He works hard enough as it is during the week.

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Trumpetboysmum · 06/05/2018 20:00

As a parent I need schedules ( if it's not in the schedule it doesn't happen!!) I think you need a new system so that people don't take advantage of your good nature . Ds's trumpet teacher is still childfree I would definitely expect that things would be more organised if his wife had a baby

Original poster

firsttimer12345 · 06/05/2018 20:12

Yes DH keeps telling me I am too nice and letting them take advantage. I think now is the perfect time to implement as we are moving house and will have to contact everyone officially about that anyway.

Great to hear that no one would think twice about paying for a missed lesson if it's the students fault rather than teachers. Do you have different rules if you cancel with notice? E.g, a student told me 3 weeks ago that they were on a school trip this week. I couldn't fill their slot as a one off but they had given me plenty of warning so DD and I had a nice afternoon at soft play!

OP posts:

Original poster

firsttimer12345 · 06/05/2018 20:13

God totally forgot to change my username back to my usual one there... not sure why it keeps reverting to that on the app... have reported the post so here it is again...

OP posts:

parrotonmyshoulder · 06/05/2018 20:16

I pay for any lessons we cancel, although if another student has cancelled that week and I can take the slot, I will.
Piano teacher is very upfront about it, and quite rightly. She can’t afford to lose wages. She also puts her prices up a bit each year.

Kutik73 · 06/05/2018 21:13

Haven't read all the posts but just to reply to firsttimer. The teacher hardly cancels lessons however when it happens she offers make up. She keeps some slots available for make-up. There is no refund system which is understandable as it can lead to unreliable income. If you have nine to five office work you don't normally expect to cancel going to work here and there. She seems to treat her lesson schedule like that. It's fixed, and it's her working hours through a year. We pay the monthly fee by direct debit - no fuss of chasing payment.

Kutik73 · 06/05/2018 21:37

There is no contact though - it's all verbal. We've been just following the instruction but not sure if all her pupils are painless like us.

The disorganised violin teacher once sued a parent for removing their child without notice. He was very upset as he could have filled the slot if the parent told him in advance. I understood the pain but then there was no contract...

MNHQ

HebeMumsnet · 06/05/2018 22:05

Hi there OP. Just popping in to say we've sorted your name change fail up there ^^ out for you now.

Original poster

firsttimer12345 · 06/05/2018 22:14

Thanks everyone.
Yes I hardly ever cancel, only in a real emergency or if I have a concert, there is plenty of notice but I guess that would go in the schedule for the year anyway.

I've been looking at the MU teacher templates which are useful too.

OP posts:

Kutik73 · 06/05/2018 22:17

I am happy to PM you the teacher's old website (I don't think she is using it now as noting is updated) where you can see her system?

Kutik73 · 06/05/2018 22:20

It's very organised. She is very impressive.

Pythonesque · 06/05/2018 22:26

You might also like to look on the abrsm online forums - issues of contracts, pay in advance vs pay as you go, terms and conditions etc are frequently discussed. I've found it really useful to help clarify my own ideas about how I want to run things (currently fewer students than you). Though I desperately need to become more organised; I've had the intention of invoicing each half-term in advance, which gives me a chance to notify any necessary lesson changes etc - but really struggling with getting the admin done at a sensible time.

Original poster

firsttimer12345 · 06/05/2018 22:30

Thanks @Kutik73, that would be great.

@Pythonesque think I'm going to try half terms in advance too then I can get it going before the summer. Will check out the abrsm forum thanks. I use trinity exams as better for my instrument so I'll have to keep that quiet over there

OP posts:

Witchend · 06/05/2018 22:30

My dc between them have had various arrangements:

Paid roughly 5 at a time (by cheque) and she would let us know when it was running out. She said she charged if cancelled with less than 24 hour notice, but in real terms hardly ever actually did. Although it was usually only illness that cancelled it, and that was rare.
Paid term of 10 weeks payable on first lesson. If she cancelled one she'd make it up, if you couldn't make one she would make it up if she could fit you in. She'd also give extra (free) lessons round exams or her annual concert.
Pay half termly, if cancel a lesson, even at short notice he'll make it up another time.
Pay a batch of lessons (I usually went for 5) by direct debit. Never charged for any missed lessons even when once I forgot at the start of term.
Pay each lesson the lesson before. So the first lesson you paid for 2 lessons, and each lesson you pay the amount for the next week. He doesn't charge with a week notice, charges 50% on 48 hours notice and full lesson with less than 24 hours notice. He keeps very strictly to this, although he may offer a replacement time if he has one.

They all work well.

Pythonesque · 06/05/2018 23:06

You'll enjoy the abrsm forums actually, there is much discussion of different exams systems there as well.

eileandonan · 06/05/2018 23:14

Our piano teacher is tough. We pay up front per term, all timetables for her pupils are in place months in advance. If we cant go, there is no refund. She may offer another slot if another student cancels. All parents sign a contract . She was messed around so often she had to toughen up. None of the parents have an issue with it. You have nothing in place that prevents people simply not turning up. Get a contract in place, payment up front and decide what your cancellation policy is....

Cecily75 · 06/05/2018 23:17

We have 3 different music teachers. We pay either through bank transfer or cheque depending on what the teacher prefers.

Teacher A invoices and asks for payment for lessons each half term. B and C both invoice for a block of 10 lessons each time.

Each teacher is fairly flexible with lesson time changes or cancellations if we ask in advance, say at least three or four days ahead of the missed lesson.

I find it's easier to track lessons and payments on a half-termly basis, but I guess it might result in a less fixed / regular income for the teacher.

BackforGood · 06/05/2018 23:27

I've used the same piano teacher for 14 years (not all the same child ).
She stated from the beginning that if we cancelled without (can't remember if it is 24 or 48 hours now) notice then we still paid. Quite right and proper.
She never wanted us to charge if we gave notice - say, we knew they would not be able to come 3 weeks next Tuesday - and sometimes she would offer an alternative, and sometimes not. I think that is understandable if it is your living, but then you'd also have to be strict about never wanting time off yourself. By allowing the 'with notice' cancellation then it gives you some flexibility too. Might be good idea to limit the number of times a term or year they can do that though.

However, you certainly need to charge for no shows. If they are late, then the lesson still should finish at the time it should have finished. So, if 10 mins late, they get 10 mins less tutoring for the same price. If you just add time on the end, you are enabling them, and creating problems for yourself.

I think the issue with paying for a term upfront is that is a lot of money to find for a lot of families - particularly if have 2 or 3 children. Monthly maybe, as I think most people get paid monthly now, but there will be confusion with 4 and 5 week months.

Wellthatsit · 07/05/2018 00:49

I am an instrumental teacher. I have used several systems. I started with charging for 4 at a time but it was a nuisance keeping track of how many lessons people had left as they were all on different schedules. Plus it felt awkward charging for no shows/late cancellations.
Then I tried the monthly payments on direct debit spread over 12 months. This worked well - was popular with parents mostly, but it was awkward if someone wanted to reschedule as, technically I owed them a lesson, but often couldn't fit it in. Some parents would be relaxed about missing a lesson they'd paid for and didn't ask for a reschedule. Others definitely wanted their full quota. The main problem with it was it was v difficult for me to cancel and I needed more flexibility as I have lots of performing commitments.
I now keep a database of lessons and send a bill at the end of every month. It's a bit of a pain, but not too arduous. Most parents pay up promptly, paying directly into my bank. I only have one who prefers to pay in cash. It's also easier to charge for missed lessons or late cancellations as it's just included in the bill. I send a message along the lines of: April's bill is now due and the total us £xxx. No-one has ever questioned the total/complained about being charged if they've cancelled. I keep a record on my data base of lessons charged for no shows etc, in case the parent needs clarification. With this method, I feel much more comfortable if I have to cancel, and they can also cancel (with notice) more easily if busy. It's less stressful.

Original poster

firsttimer12345 · 07/05/2018 04:27

This is all wonderful. So great to have so many different views and systems.

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SE13Mummy · 08/05/2018 09:59

I'm a parent who pays for music lessons but have always had to pay a term in advance (lessons provided at school via music service, at school by private teacher or through a JD). Any lessons my DDs miss because they're away on a school trip/similar, we still pay for. Lessons missed because the teacher cancels are made up towards the end of the term (school music lessons are ten per term), credited to the next term if that's not possible or, in the case of the JD, take place on a pre-arranged make-up week.

I do feel as though my bank account Enid empties at the beginning of each term but I'm used to it now.

SE13Mummy · 08/05/2018 10:00

Enid? I've no idea why Enid thinks she has anything to do with my bank account!

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