May Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Have a new thread for May... you all managed to fill the April one!

This is a place to chat about music lessons, exams, practice, aural, theory, performances and anything else you like. We have many regular and occasional posters (some of whom are learning themselves) with children ranging from complete beginners to very advanced. We do try our best to make sure everyone feels welcome!

I am mum to Goo (12) flute and piano, and Rara (9) cello and clarinet. They play in loads of school groups, South West Music School and NCO, although practice isn't going too well at the moment. Later in the week, all three of us are taking part in a big community concert, which will be lovely.

Japanese, maybe you are right. She would like to choose a lower grade piece to play at her class concert. Last term she planned to pick up a Vivaldi G major to play which she learned 2 years ago. But she forgot to bring her violin then had to play piano. She only got a grade 7 piano piece by meomory at that time. She does not like to play much high level piece than others who are all about grade 3 level.

I have discussed with her and hope she can behave better in onwards performances.

Ha ha 2nd, it may all go pear-shaped yet! We don't have any groups which dominate as yet, not many musicians yet!

Japanese, that's so nice your DD enjoyed her first borough training orchestra. It reminds me this time last year when DS had just started orchestra. Coming from no experience other than school group music, it looked a huge step up, and as he hadn't done much sight-reading at that level before, I was wondering how he was feeling. I would ask him if it was too hard, then he would say he did well with a big smile. He is not a perfectionist at all so he would normally think he did pretty well if he manages 60%. So not really sure how much exactly he was (and still is...) coping. But whatever he was doing he absolutely loved it and couldn't wait to go back again. It quickly became his most favourite after school activity. It's amazing musically but also socially. I hope miniJapanese continues to enjoy the wonderful orchestra experience.

Thanks Alexandra, I will have a listen to these on YouTube, it's good to have a list of ones that people like!

2ndsopranos at my DCs school only the year 11s and year 13s are allowed solos (one each if they want it)! Everyone else has to form groups, but they can usually squeeze in multiple acts as a result (hence DD being in 4/5 most shows - she forms groups with her friends and plays with the ensembles). Her school’s big though so there simply wouldn’t be time - the main concerts are incredibly long as it is, and combine dance, drama/comedy, and singing performances. They’re a bit of a marathon really!! They do little music concerts quite regularly and have the students cycle round - they call them “tea time concerts” and select maybe 10 kids to perform from a variety of abilities to their groups of parents. Quite a nice affair! Though DD1 and DD2 can rarely make them due to sport...

Also interesting you make the sports day point - again at DCs school you’re only allowed to participate in a maximum of two events on sports day!! Every year DDs agonise over which races/events she wants to sign up for... DS was so not sporty that I wasn’t even aware of the limit until DD1 was in year 7!!

folkmamma that’s really unfair! At least I gather from the past tense in your post that you don’t have to put up with that any more!! DD2 was always given minor roles in primary school shows because she’d done quite a bit of professional dance/theatre out of school but she luckily wasn’t the kind of kid that minded (and really did “have the opportunity out of school” that most never get.) I’m sure some would be gutted

2ndsopranos that is unfair - they should at least establish a set system.

Tabby the most galling time was when she didn't get a part in the school play 'because she doesn't push herself forward or show a particular aptitude'. The child had just completed her second season of professional panto....

Yes, all past tense! We moved her in September into a feeder school for the secondary school we wanted and the new school really celebrates their achievements and is super supportive.

2nd can you have a quiet word with her teacher and explain her disappointment? Xx

Oh dd gets that all the time at school - they give the parts to those that don't have a chance out of school !?! Which I sort of get but it is unfair . Ds is always on a mission to make sure he's included in as much as possible !! And at high school they really celebrate those that show a particular talent for music or drama ( the school concerts are very long but it's nice ) so I've told Ds she'll be fine when she gets there . Interestingly they did worked the best drummers for the swimming gala - b

Posted too soon because it was a competition and they wanted to win ( luckily that included dd !!) but like you say different standards for music and sport

Sorry fat fingers and on my phone - they wanted the best swimmers not drummers !!

I suppose also it’d be cruel to put children who didn’t like swimming/ could potentially be embarrassed if they finished miles behind everyone else (not great for jeering) in a swimming team!

folkmamma that’s so absurd it’s almost funny at least if they’d used “she has opportunities out of school” it would be true!! At least you’ve escaped...

Trumpetboysmum I think because DDs’ school is big (around 2000 students) they physically can’t fit in performances from the 9 or 10 established large music ensembles, 6 established dance groups plus drama pieces, smaller group music/dance pieces and solos from every kid who wants one! They’re 3+ hours long as it is... not sure the already fidgety little siblings I see in the audience could cope with any more

I've got interesting opinions on music specialist school. Love to hear your views on this...

I have a 10 years old who thinks he should go to a music specialist school but so far we haven't given him the choice to even consider the option. The reasons are all the obvious things for many parents - too young to narrow down, fear of putting all the eggs in one place, things he may miss out due to the narrowing down so early, he is a reasonably academic child, etc. It seems 6th form is a popular time to consider for many on this thread, which is understandable as they are old enough to know more about themselves and their real talent and suitability would be more visible by then. However, I have a friend who thinks it's actually good to let him go now rather than later. Her reasons are;

1. What's the point of playing so low key when a child is so obviously passionate about something. Any passion should be celebrated and encouraged rather than being pushed down and ignored (ouch...). Now is the time to give him what he is longing for. Don't take water away from a fish.

1. Academic results at music specialist schools may not appear to be great (good but not great) as those who set their heart on music 100% probably pay little attention to academic achievements. But there are always those who want and will keep up with academic side and if that's what they want then they get enough, or in fact better attention and individual support than state secondary as usually their class size is so tiny.

1. Rather than seeing it as a music specialist school where all they do is music, imagine you are just sending a child to a school of tiny class size therefore he gets better and more efficient academic support (if he wants to keep up) with strong emphasis on music. If he loves it and doesn't change his heart, then he can stay there, and enjoys all the benefits. But if he realises it's not what he wants to do in future, he has an option to move on to a mainstream school for 6th form. His GCSEs may not be as broad as others but should be good enough to get in where he decides to go. He can also try a music scholarship then. So nothing to lose by choosing this route.

1. In fact, sending him now is better than later. If he decides to keep music as a hobby, as explained above, he can go back to a mainstream education at 6th form and there will be no harm on his academic side at all. But if he didn't change his mind and music stays as his main passion, he would benefit from starting the specialist education earlier as a violinist. If he joins at 6th form, he may always wonder 'if' he was let to start earlier and he may actually feel bitter about it.

1. Basically sending him to a music specialist school at his age won't really narrow down his future nor it doesn't mean putting all the eggs in a basket. There are lost children who go to a choir school for instance, and get involved in music heavily, then move to a good senior school often as a music scholar and continue to study whatever they decide to study. It's pretty the same as that IF he decides to study other than music in future. There are lots of different and interesting routes to reach uni. Staying at mainstream school all the way through is not the only way to keep your doors wide open.

She doesn't have a child in a music specialist school by the way. So her opinions are not coming from experience. But, after talking to her, I was left feeling if I was thinking too rigidly about specialist schools in general? Somehow I thought moving out of a specialist school at 13+ or 6th form means 'drop-out' rather than a planned choice.

That's a tricky one Kutik and I'm sure there will be lots of differing opinions here. I think as long as you are abreast of how DS is developing in all aspects of his life (which you clearly are) then neither option will close doors for him. I am sure Mini-Kutik will succeed at whatever he decides to throw himself into, he is that kind of child! (And I mean that in the best way).

We have never seriously considered specialist school (I don't think DD would get in for starters) but when we were having our secondary school worries last year, her teacher did mention Purcell as a future possibility. However, he felt very strongly that she ought to wait until she was older (at least 13). This was based on his own experience.

The question for me would be, what is it going to give him that he is not getting now? Literally, make 2 lists, pros and cons. If the positives outweigh your reservations, then go for it. No situation is permanent and you will always have choices.

I think she has a point about going now then looking again at sixth form, if it turns out that he wants to do something a specialist Music school can’t offer such as sciences etc- as in biology, chemistry etc.
Also some of the specialist Music schools have a good academic reputation.
I think it’s worth looking at, maybe go look, audition and see what happens, then decide from there?
Also there are children in these schools who go on to study medicine etc, it’s all possible. Remember that they are only 18 yrs old when they leave, far too early in their lives to our rule any opportunities.
Also she may have a point about playing with like minded individuals who are just as passionate as he is about music. It’s also great to be surrounded by musicians who are more advanced than you too, you learn a lot.

Plus if either doesn’t work out, you can change your plans again.
What does mini- kutik want to do?

I think it all depends how much it would cost for you to be honest! For us, is is a cheap way to 'buy' small class sizes and an atmosphere of excellence and hard work in our big city which is very deprived in the bit we live in with all the challenges that brings to state schools. But you have an excellent state school and JD and a son with lots of energy and perhaps without my DD's keen sense of the bare minimum?! And money to spare for NCO and instruments and extra classes etc.

Thanks folk and Paul.

DS hasn't changed his mind at all since he visited a school in January. He just keeps saying he wants to go there. The school and people there looked so awesome to his eyes I think he is longing to be part of it. I don't think he has any specific plan or dream such as becoming a violinist or playing in an orchestra, though he sometimes says he would teach and compose when he is at Perlman's age (meaning very old).

Being surrounded by like minded children and more advanced musicians are one of the attractions but luckily DS has known much more advanced young musicians than himself since he started learning instruments so he has never had the always being top kind of problem. He has already plenty people to look up. I think a big gain is time. And a big concern is impact on academic results = narrowing future choice. However, as my friend says, if it doesn't really have negative impact on the academic side (though I understand choices are fewer), at least KS3 age, one big concern will be lifted.

How common is going elsewhere for 6th form? Those who do so are minority? At least I know those who choose to study medicine etc are very much minority from looking at the destination.

Another and the most important thing to consider is which environment makes him a happy, healthy person.

You make some very interesting points Kutik. The only specialist music school that I know anything about is Yehudi Menuhin (because the Head at our school came from there).

I was talking with a friend whose sister is a cellist. She said that a specialist music school is probably only worthwhile if you have a completely driven child who just HAS to practise / play music for hours every day. In any case, the school is only likely to accept children like this. If your child is one of these children (and he might be) then it could be worth considering. What schools are you thinking about?

How do you feel about boarding?

Swaying, that's a good point - money. In fact, I totally dismissed the music specialist school option at first. But the topic came up at a family meeting when we were discussing which secondary school offer we should accept. We had a private and a state option. DH really liked the private school but when we weighed up all the cost of school fees, very expensive music education fees, and other activities, we thought we would probably struggle to make the end meet, which may result in restricting DS's musical activities at some point. We didn't discuss money in front of DS. But DH wanted to hear DS saying he really wanna go to the private school to make the financial burden worthwhile, but when DH asked DS where he would really like to go, DS said he would actually like to go to a music specialist school. And DH was like, 'that would in fact come up a lot more economical to keep up all!' So it could be, exactly as you say, the best solution for buying small class sizes and excellent musical education for relatively reasonable financial commitment.

Kutik it is so tricky and you know I've wrestled with it a lot . Ds would love to go ( though really might not get in) but I think he would miss sport - though he only does this at school now ( too busy with music the rest of the time ) . His teacher is adament that he shouldn't go till 6 th form and his school plus jd would also serve him well for this . His teacher however isn't seeing Ds struggling at times to balance the high academic expectations of school and practise and ensemble playing in the evening and at times I think a school where the emphasis was on music would help Ds to find the balance more easily . He will however be very good at managing his time by the time he becomes an adult . School do try and be helpful but ultimately all of his teachers also want him to excel in their subjects - as Ds says they just don't get my pecking order !! At a music school they would . For us though it's down to cost we've never really been in a position to consider private schools and I think we would struggle to find our contribution to specialist school fees . If that wasn't an issue I would seriously consider it

Kutik if I had a child who was hellbent on going, I would send them. I'd certainly send him, but do be aware that he is still likely to be way ahead of many, so might not find his peers straight away. Goo is sitting on the fence, so she's staying put for now, but she probably wouldn't get in anyway, meaning it's not up for discussion yet.

kutik would your DS need to board? Don't answer on the thread if that is too outing, but it might be a consideration.

We have ruled out specialist school for DS2 because he would have to board. For personal reasons connected with my own experience of boarding school, I am not able to let him. This is an emotional response from me and it is not connected with the reality of modern boarding, which is very very different to what I experienced - so I am making no statement on the pros and cons of boarding! But you might want to consider your own feelings about having your DS board when he is 11 vs 13 or 16.

Incidentally, DS2 would love to board asap, based on his Pro Corda experience! But it isn't happening in our family!

You made an interesting point about choir school. Whilst all the boys do come through the transition to 'normal' school and 'normal' life, it can be a very challenging time for them. And after the initial euphoria of having free time passes, they can feel a bit lost. This is one of the reasons that I have pushed so far with the instrumental music for DS2 - so he has something to move to after his voice changes. Other parents support their DSes through focus on new musical avenues (e.g. composition/theory), or through encouraging sport, maths, writing etc. But it isn't easy.

Kutik - if dd was sure then I would send her; I think - but maybe wrong - that someone aiming for a soloist strong career would be better at specialist school earlier rather than later( I think a wider range of paths/timings for other instruments. Maybe that is just my perception but even just looking at YMIOY strings tended to follow the specialist or home school path I think (of course there are always exceptions but usually supported by a very supportive adaptable school which sheku seems to have had)