April Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Happy Easter! The sun is shining here (at the moment) so I'm hoping spring has finally arrived.

Here's a new thread for anyone who wants to talk about music lessons, exams, practice, concerts, aural, scales, theory, ensembles or anything else music related. Everyone is welcome, from beginners to advanced and also adult learners. I started these threads 6.5 years ago when I had a beginner myself. Her nickname is Goo, she is 12 and taking Grade 8 Flute next term. I think she's finally going to do her Grade 5 Piano in the autumn. When those are out of the way, she's thinking of taking up the recorder again and doing Grade 8 on that, because flute sort of took over and she never got around to it. Her sister Rara is 9, and is currently around Grade 4 on both Cello and Clarinet. She doesn't want to do any more exams for ages, so will probably do her grade 5s in a couple of years or so. Rara is a lapsed recorder player who will be performing on it next month, and she dabbles with piano, glock and accordion. Both girls do South West Music School, although I regularly go back on forth over whether this is still the best setting for Goo. We are pretty rural and hours away from any big cities.

Please can we all be extra careful to make sure that everyone is acknowledged and assisted where appropriate... I include myself in needing to make an effort, but I'm not around all day, every day. This is a lovely, calm, supportive corner of Mumsnet but I do receive a handful of messages from people who don't feel welcome because they or their children are less advanced, or they're not in a position to consider JD/ private school/ expensive instruments and feel left out, or they wonder if it's OK to post about certain instruments/ families. I did say I would try. Thank you all so much!

I totally agree with your point of the importance of listening, folk. I must say DS did listen to the pieces sometimes. Naturally we are drawn to the piece you know, you love and you learn, so hard to avoid! But DS tried to 'read' the music as the teacher suggested. Not sure how much he managed to do so though, as it's quite a hard task for his age. Learning about the composer (the personality, life and historical background) seemed to help him understand the atmosphere. He read lots of biography, accounts of composers.

Interesting... In my experience, the process of learning a piece in itself makes you interpret it in your own way, regardless of who you have listened to. Also, DS and I will listen to many pieces of a similar genre (not just the one he is learning) to help him develop ideas and understanding. He is constantly surrounded by music, and I think this helps him express himself when he is playing.

The teacher didn't tell DS NOT TO LISTEN TO any music... Of course DS listen to many pieces...

Also, he usually listens to the pieces of his orchestra, just because he likes listening to them rather than for study purpose though.

Interesting one kutik. I'm even more impressed with your DS now, reading biographies etc! How does this approach work with having lessons? Does your DS's teacher not influence how he plays things herself? Or is it just anyone else's interpretation that interferes with reading it from the music?

Sounded to me like se22's DD had basically learned the piece and got to the stage she could do with a lesson but it's holiday time. In that case, I think listening can be a good way of checking she's on the right track and getting some fresh ideas.

I'd have said listening to a few different versions is generally less prescriptive than just doing what the teacher says. And if a student has the ability to parrot professional interpretations then they're probably of a level to have strong opinions of their own anyway.

I mean, I do kind of get where she's coming from, I do like to learn things myself first too; but then once I've got it the way I think I want it, listening is a good way to get some alternative points of view and fresh ideas. By that time I'm stuck in my ways anyway One (pro) friend does it the opposite way round, she listens to lots of recordings before even starting, but then stops listening while she's learning the music so her own interpretation isn't unduly influenced.

Oh, and honourable exception - I always try to listen to chamber music before playing it. So much easier if you know how it's supposed to fit together.

Sorry Kutik - I was purely commenting on DS2. I wasn’t trying to comment on your DS’s piano teacher or your DS. I’m sure he listens to loads of music. It is impossible to keep children like him away from music - and I’m sure no-one wants to do that! . It is very impressive that he reads so much about music, especially being so young.

Crazy - The Bach two-part inventions come in at around grade 4, maybe with elements of grade 5 in certain ones. Also the Anna Magdalena Notebook by Bach has pleasing and easily achievable pieces of varying standards.The Clementi Sonatinas are a lovely introduction to the style and structure of Mozart sonatas. The CPE Bach Solfegietto sounds flashy but is really just a lot of C minor arpeggios and is fun. Achievable at grade 4 for an enthusiastic pianist I would say.
Kutik - I can offer no explanation, but I feel for your plight. I still remember breaking it to DS1's first teacher that we were moving on and she had been the sweetest, kindest person imaginable. I felt like the world's most ungrateful parent. It is horrible, but most music teachers will recognise that there is a point when they will no longer be the right teacher. Unfortunately for you, your circumstance is less positive. She does seem to have given you a get out clause with her comments about preferring to hand him over - unless of course she is waiting for you to tell her you would never ever leave her! I think that is the starting point for your conversation; put it to her that you are worried that she is unhappy teaching your child because of her previous comments and ask her if she is happy to continue to do so. That puts the ball in her court and might clarify things for you.

Sorry guys, I may not know what I am talking about, so, forgive me. When I read the lots of listening comments, I casually thought, 'let me talk about what the teacher said to us'. But really, I don't even remember exactly why she prefers DS learning from the music first. I think that's her way. But again, it's not that DS is not allowed to listen, it's not a strict order, so we are probably doing something similar to everyone. But DS doesn't listen to a new piece until he gets a certain point. Not sure if he is strictly following her instruction or it's just how he does at this stage. Obviously when he learns a piece he knows already, or in fact a piece he was dying to learn, he knows how it sounds inside out! She wouldn't complain about it (of course).

Polly, thanks for your kind advice. She is a nice person, and I respect her A LOT. But at the same time, she is quite a difficult person to have a heart to heart kind of talk. I did before for something else and failed miserably. I am too scared to be too open to her now in case I say something wrong again... So my current feeling is, we probably have to leave her at the end of the school year (one term to go). It's just too much of tiptoeing sadly... And I am not great at it.

cat, I must clarify about DS reading biographies as it's far from being impressive... I've got lots of children's books in my language and many of them are biographies of historical people. They are all easy to read. DS is not a bookworm, just an average reader.

Nope, still impressed, sorry I have two bookworms, they still wouldn't choose to read biographies!

DDs teacher encourages the listening to her pieces. Often after she’s learnt them, to help her work out the flourishes and details she wants to add. A recent piece she’s encouraged playing along with the track for raising the tempo, making sure she keeps going forward etc etc. DD loved the opportunity to play “with” orchestral backing!

Thanks so much for all the suggestions of piano music- a lovely mix of styles that I shall investigate! Xx

I loved reading biographies when I was a kid. I still do. I just finished reading Josephine by Kate Williams. He may be just after me then. He likes reading averagely, but not a bookworm I'm afraid!

That may be why I like Jean Christophe by Romain Rolland so much. It's a biographical novel! I read the book prob 20 years or so ago. And it's still my top five. Shame no one seems to know this book nor the author...

When Ds was younger ( and about grade 5 ish) I would always make him learn a piece first without listening to it - mainly because I knew he had zoomed ahead and his playing was beyond his reading of music and if he heard a piece he would then quickly be able to figure it out . No idea what his teacher made of this but it worked !! Now his teacher ( and myself ) actively encourage him to listen to the music as he's learning it , helps to fully understand the piece , listening to lots of interpretations helps with his own ( though this is something that is only really starting to develop now) etc . Totally agree about the comment about listening before or as you learn chamber music - definitely Ds does lots of really modern chamber music at AYM you definitely need to listen to that first otherwise it makes little sense as one line of music

Oh and back to the original question SE yes I would definitely get her to listen to the piece without and with the score in front of her . Lots of ds's music is now way beyond me and just like you I think it's nice but is it right ? Listening with the score really helps with that . This is also important for Ds as he can easily go a few weeks learning a piece without playing it to ( or with - they do a lot of this ) his teacher . I find this unnerving Ds says this is because his teacher is working on technique to learn how to play the trumpet not how to play a piece of music !?! Luckily his piano teacher doesn't work like this so I don't feel that I need to keep an ear out for his piano practice too in case mistakes get ingrained here as well - which can happen only too easily !!

Fascinating to hear how all of you and your DC go about approaching a new piece of music! And good to know there isn’t really a right way as such, but different processes to achieve the end result that works between teacher and student.

So far today DD2 has totally lost her s@&£ over:

Having to settle for a single croissant

Being told she can't watch a SECOND movie until after she is dressed and has done the necessary

Being asked to clean her teeth before her hair was done

Not being able to find the right pencil

In view of this, I'd written off practice for today. Then she comes and asks me if I will practice with her and we have one of the most productive sessions in a long time. How does that work?? 🙈

They are a mystery, folk. Dd has a meltdown about a missing jumper this morning. Over the course of this holiday she has had meltdowns over school revision but has grasped new scales already (because she wants to learn them)

Folk sorry your day didn't start well to productive practice . Glad it's not just me who has mornings/ days like this though !!

DS didn't listen to the pieces till he was at a certain standard because the versions of the lower grades pieces on Youtube don't really add anything. It is when he started with pieces which had been played by the likes of Richter and Barenboim that the listening really helped. Because in my opinion it's only worth being inspired and learning from the good ones. When your child is very young you have to be careful that they don't think the piece is supposed to sound like this person who has uploaded it to Youtube and it's so lacking in character, interpretation, etc.

And with this pretentious bomb I will leave you my dears and I'm going back to work

Oh sorry not really, my last post... I totally forgot that DH started buying the ABRSM books with the CD, so DS was choosing pieces after listening to them, so of course he did listen to the pieces, the ABRSM recordings of them! My memory of the last years is terrible, must be something to do with turning 50 in two weeks ahhhhhj!!

2nd, listening to the whole movement is something we do too. It helps to see the whole picture.

I feel bad I have caused this listening/not listening debate. That was not my intention... I think we all listen to others' performance at some point but some do so at the very beginning of learning a new piece to get ideas, others in the middle to fresh up, then there are those who do so at the end to review or all the way through to constantly look for an inspiration. Then there are those who actively listen to learn how dynamics go and others just refer to pick a piece, and so on.

DS has several teachers and they all have different approach/philosophy. In the end it's up to us how much to follow the advice/instruction and things have been somehow working fine so far (apart from the awkwardness with the piano teacher!).

Basically I didn't mean to make it black and white. But it was interesting to hear what others think!