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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

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Original poster

Aural tests in child who cannot sing.

38 replies

Didiplanthis · 03/02/2018 20:39

Any tips for helping ? Dd is doing grade 1 and really really really cannot pitch her voice at all. Can hear pitch ok as plays violin mostly in tune. But cannot sing back a note let along a phrase. I am trying to help but just starting with single notes then 2 notes. Will happily do this every day with her but what else can I do ? We listen to lots of music. I was rubbish at aural but could at least sing in tune!

OP posts:

Wafflenose · 03/02/2018 22:08

If it's ABRSM, that section of the exam is worth about 4 marks out of 150. She will get 1 mark for having a go, and 2 for the correct rhythm - perhaps even more if the shape of the melody is correct. Depending on her age, you might just have to wait for that skill to develop (rather than trying to work on it), but for the sake of 2-3 marks my advice as a teacher would be please, please don't worry.

Original poster

Didiplanthis · 03/02/2018 22:17

Thank you. That's reassuring. To be fair I failed grade 7 aural and still got a distinction. She's just 8 - is there a chance this something that might still develop with time ? She quite enjoys the aural 'games' so maybe we can just make it a bit of fun .

OP posts:

Wafflenose · 03/02/2018 22:18

Yes, it will just come in time. Many 8 year olds don't have the vocal 'equipment' to be precise enough yet.

Witchend · 04/02/2018 04:03

You used to be able to play it back rather than sing it back-dh used to do that. She could ask if that is an option.

Ilovewheelychairs · 04/02/2018 04:05

Or hum/whistle it. Many children have more control over humming than singing.

Broken11Girl · 04/02/2018 05:29

I sympathise with her, can't sing either.
It's worth 18 marks, not 4 You do get 6 for having a go, less than 6 doesn't exist, you would only get 0 for refusing it.The other bits of aural which don't involve singing - clapping back a rhythm etc - are included in the mark.
You can still opt to play it back - might be an option? She will still have to sing in middle and upper grades though if she continues.
There are loads of apps and YouTube example videos, also ABRSM do example aural test books with CD, worth getting.
Maybe consider singing lessons?

ShackUp · 04/02/2018 08:23

broken the singing bit of the aural tests is worth 4/18 marks.

OP how old is DD?

Whowhatwhy · 04/02/2018 08:28

Is she better at pitching if it's lower? Sometimes people without vocal training can't sing in certain ranges. Try doing an exercise with her but stick to low pitched notes (mid C and lower) . See how she goes.

Noteventhebestdrummer · 04/02/2018 08:32

I've told examiners the possible vocal range for candidates who find singing tricky so they will use this, they always oblige. Not that I'm listening from the hall, of course.

Whowhatwhy · 04/02/2018 09:18

Absolutely noteven. You can def do that OP but try first and see how she goes. If she plays violin she must be able to hear pitches. The issue is much more likely to be her vocal ability than her ear.

mammmamia · 04/02/2018 09:24

Thank you for posting this as my DS has same problem and I wouldn't have known how to articulate it.
He's 8 and preparing for grade 1 piano and also plays trumpet. He has a good grasp of notes, rhythm, phrasing, dynamics. But he doesn't seem to have any pitch. When he sings he's completely out of tune. Is it possible for him to succeed at music with this or will it develop later...?

mammmamia · 04/02/2018 09:26

Yes whowhatwhy you've nailed it. I think for my DS it's his vocal ability. His ear is fine. Can vocal ability develop? He really wants to be able to sing and he hasn't realised yet that he can't

Whowhatwhy · 04/02/2018 09:35

Vocal ability can absolutely develop. Most people's natural singing voice sits in the register of their natural speaking voice because that's the part of their voice that is most exercised. Just like an athlete, it's absolutely possible to get the rest of the voice going too. A few singing lessons would help if he was willing?

mammmamia · 04/02/2018 09:52

Yes singing lessons maybe. Am going to mention it to his piano teacher. Thank you.

Greenleave · 04/02/2018 10:04

It is definitely vocal ability, mine is the same, cant sing and hates it, refused point blank to all singing parts in her exams(we only do abrsm, so far we have done grade 5 violin and grade 7piano). We have always lost these aural marks. She is 10 now and still the same. I am sorry not having a positive experience to share. We didnt find losing these aural marks were painful compare to learning scales, there are so many scales to learn and she resists them too. She still has to learn them and then the pieces came as a lovely icing on the cake part(for us). We decided not to do any exam for some long time(may be till the end of primary, which by then she has 2 years gaps or more to the last exams she did), we might just do grade 8 for both.

Whowhatwhy · 04/02/2018 10:12

Do remember that you can hum or even whistle the aural tests. It is not a test of a voice but a test of an ear.

BeyondThePage · 04/02/2018 10:16

It is literally 4 marks for the singing bit - and you get at least a mark for trying.

Would concentrate on the pieces and the scales.

Original poster

Didiplanthis · 04/02/2018 10:43

Thank you so much for all the replies. Nice to know I'm not alone ! I think if things don't improve as we go up the grades I'll look at singing lessons. At the moment she also doesnt realize she can't sing and happily burbles away tunelessly. I don't want to make her self conscious by drawing attention to it if it might improve. It's definately vocal ability not pitch as she is pretty good at correcting on the violin.

OP posts:

mammmamia · 04/02/2018 15:43

didi my DS is the same. Loves singing and doesn't realise he's out of tune. And yet manages to correct himself on the piano and trumpet.

Broken11Girl · 05/02/2018 04:58

Singing ability is definitely not the same as pitch- I'm the same as your DC OP & mamma

I'm genuinely confused now, as I understand it the aural test isn't subdivided but given an overall mark.

Here: gb.abrsm.org/en/exam-support/your-guide-to-abrsm-exams/how-we-mark-exams/

^Grades 1-8

Accuracy, musical perception and awareness, security of responses.

Mark
Aural tests

Distinction
17–18

Accurate throughout
Musically perceptive
Confident response

Merit
15–16

Strengths significantly outweigh weaknesses
Musically aware
Secure response

Pass
12-14

Strengths just outweigh weaknesses
Cautious response

Below Pass
9-11

Weaknesses outweigh strengths
Uncertain response

6-8

Inaccuracy throughout
Vague response

No work offered^

Floottoot · 05/02/2018 08:24

I think what Waffle is saying is that the singing part is only 1/4 of the aural tests, so that the maximum you can lose on it is 4 marks, and that would only be if you offered no response at all.

Wafflenose · 05/02/2018 08:46

Broken it IS given a general mark, but I have entered around 400 children for these tests, and they usually get the rest of the aural right. So my singing refusers (I don't have many) got around 14, and those that sang anything at all got 15-16. One boy last year who could sing the correct shape and rhythm but in the wrong key got 17. The point of my post was really to show that the singing aspect is a TINY bit of the exam and not worth tying oneself in knots about. I didn't enjoy it, so always played it on my clarinet instead.

INeedNewShoes · 05/02/2018 08:59

The aural tests are made up of 3 or 4 little tests per grade, and at grade 1 only one of these involves singing so, just to echo others, it is not the full 18 marks at stake.

The singing will come in time. Lots of singing at home, join the choir at school (as long as it's inclusive) and whatever you do don't let on how terrible they are as lack of confidence makes it much worse to teach them. A good teacher should be doing a little bit of singing in most lessons. It is a useful device in lots of ways, not only for getting the exam marks.

Broken11Girl · 05/02/2018 09:04

I know what I'm talking about, thanks.
Floot that is not correct. The actual proportion of the aural that is singing depends on the grade, eg in g4 you have to sing back a melody and sight sing as well as clap back a rhythm and answer questions about the style and character of a piece, so singing makes up about half of it.
Well done Waffle then you know that your statement that singing is literally worth 4 marks out of 150 is incorrect. I just don't believe that your pupils who refused to sing got 14 and those who can't sing but had a go got 15-16. If you refer to the actual abrsm markscheme above, 14 is strengths outweigh weaknesses, 15-16 is strengths significantly outweigh weaknesses. Frankly that gives far too much opportunity to be subjective to the examiner, and some will give singing more weight than others. Many will just dismiss candidates who can't sing.
So

Broken11Girl · 05/02/2018 09:11

I'm saying this because OP's DD needs to work on this NOW or get several marks lower than she actually deserves imo. As has been said, singing ability isn't the same as musical ability and if you think it is you are telling me and those DC they're shit musicians and csn DFOD.
THERE IS NO 4 MARKS FOR SINGING. IT IS SUBJECTIVE BUT UP TO HALF OF THE MARKS.

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