November Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

New month, new thread! This is a place for musicians and parents of musicians, from complete beginners to experienced and everything in between, to talk about everything to do with music! Previous threads have covered exams, practice, scales, instrument hire and purchase, theory, composition, aural woes, auditions, scholarship preparation and much more.

I started these threads when my 12 year old daughter Goo was 6 and preparing for Grade 1. I never thought we'd still be going, 6 years later! I appreciated all the advice I was given back then, and try to repay that when I can.

Goo plays the flute and piano (she has been learning the piano for 18 months but has yet to perform - ever) and has no exams lined up at the moment. I also have Rara who is 9, and working towards her third Grade 3, on the clarinet. The other two were on the cello and recorder. She's more interested in art and reading, and currently swims five times a week.

I am a teacher of woodwind, and Wednesday is my day from you-know-where... full-on from 6.30 am until 10 pm, and about to get worse!!

herts one last thing. I have discovered a music degree at Manchester which is combined with RNCM. It's 4 years, 3 of those at Manchester whilst receiving tuition at RNCM and the fourth year you go full time to RNCM:
"The GRNCM/MusB, informally known as the ‘Joint Course’, offers a unique opportunity for students with outstanding practical and academic ability to gain the advantage of simultaneous study at both a world-class conservatoire and a world-class university. On successful completion of the course, students receive a diploma (Graduate of the Royal Northern College of Music, GRNCM) from the RNCM, and a degree from the University of Manchester (MusB)."

Do you know anything about it? Does anyone else know? Paulweller? Thanks.
RNCM is very good for percussion, I believe...

It will always be like that when there is a new stage of life...its exciting and equally scary!!! By then it might be just the right time to reread “who moved my cheese”:).

To me, I am very worried about our secondary school entrance however delaying her studying on purpose so she could still read, does music, goes to chess tournament and messes around with her (so called) Arts activities. My friend’s daughter who is so much similar to mine compare to any others(boyish, quirky, fast however...lazy) failed her 11+ to all schools(they are all North London super selective though). I was shocked for couple of days thinking we would be the same. However I have now come to the thought that if that is the case for us then we will consider its just a test. We failed many tests in life and it didnt stop us taking other routes.
Looking back to all people we know then the ones who did well at school are not always who earns the most success, sometimes too much influence from parents might be negative ones(earlier in life:reducing children independent, creative and critical thinking, later on in life: hinding ability to take risks, responsible for own choice and be flexible to change when its needed regarding to Univ then career choice).

Well, I have posted too much for a day, I planned to have a day off to declutter my house (much needed) then I ended up spending times in coffee shop and cooking, the decluttering could then be postponed to this weekend.

You haven't ruined my afternoon at all ! I'm expecting lots of tricky discussions ahead. We recently nearly missed a careers evening as he had looked at the sheet and said there were no stalls about music so he wasn't interested in going. We went anyway!! And did find out that for some careers such as law a level and even degree choice don't really have an impact on studying it later in. Their advice to ds was to do what he felt passionate about as it was all about grades and so it was better to study things that he really enjoyed. That made me feel better 😀 Though school seem to equate success to studying for a vast number of GCSEs and I'm not sure how ds is going to fair fitting this and lots of music in

trumpet 10 Gcses is enough these days... DS' school won't allow for more, unless you do one outside timetable like he did with Spanish last year.

Drummers - 10 GCSEs? Son only doing 7 and even that is a struggle with music :) On RNCM the combined course looks interesting although I don't know anything particular about it. I would slightly worry about how that works for percussion as the instrument workload can be so much more than if one instrument as you know but could be good way to hedge options. As you say it is a good place for percussion.

I am shocked ( but also now feeling positive about my further discussions with school) unless they have changed things they still have a 3 year key stage 4 at his school and study for 12 GCSES . Just about fine when there was coursework and they staggered the years that they took them in probably not so fine now . I think I need to make an appointment to speak with his year head around the time they take their options ( next term) there's no way he can do 12 and do music and I want to keep all options open to him in the future. I really don't want to move his school so either they will let him follow a slightly reduced timetable with timetabled practice or study at school or I will make it clear that he will do the minimum of work for some subjects there's no way he can carry on doing what he's doing and spreading himself so thinly once the workload increases

There are only ten places on the joint course and you need to be academically good as well as musically good. EE is the standard offer, it's AAB for the joint course. DS was put off it by talking to current (not joint) students who said that the joint course people were never seen, had no social life and did nothing but work. i have no idea whether or not that is true.

Hello everyone - I'm trying to catch up on the thread after a busy month! With A-level choices, it is important to consider what subjects complement each other as well as DC's current strengths and passions. Students often drop a grade or two on an 'outlier' subject because they have less e.g. essay writing/maths skill than other candidates. Seems obvious, but you'd be surprised how often we see this (I'm a university prof In my spare time :-) )

On music matters, I finally gave in to DS2's desire to be a youtuber and posted his Vivaldi and a short clip of him singing on the YouTube channel. He'll be thrilled! Very best of luck to DCs doing exams! Especially those with stinking colds.

I think we’re as sorted as we can be at the moment for where to study for sixth form. DS1 has provisionally chosen the subjects he plans to do for A level and has decided for now he won’t do music but will work on his performance diploma instead.
He’s doing 10 1/2 GCSEs, plus extra-curricular Japanese but not sure if he wants to do the exam this year!
drummers I feel for you - has DS looked at Imperial? There is a very interesting looking joint hons in music and physics. Not sure it helps, though. As you say the difficult bit is closing off options.

Drummers, my tuppence worth...for what it's worth.
I went to music college, and did the graduate course, followed by a post-grad another London music college. My twin sister went to what was then Huddersfeld Poly, to study music, but knew in the first term that it wasn't for her, so auditioned and got a place at the RNCM.
My husband went to performing arts college in Liverpool as a drum kit player at 18 (no formal training to speak of, before then ), and then went to the RWCMD at 24 or so, as a percussionist.
I was offered my first orchestral trial while in my 3rd year, my sister never played again after graduating, and my DH has played professionally since leaving college.

Of my college friends, some have top orchestra jobs, some are soloists, some are HODs in secondary schools, some are in completely different fields of work.

I know several people who went to uni to study music and then did post grads at music college and perused a playing career. Likewise, I know a couple who went to Oxbridge (one who didn't study music there but did continue instrumental lessons) and now play with some of the top orchestras in the world.

My point is that there is no single route to becoming a musician. If you find yourself wondering whether it pays well enough, then it's probably not for you; above all else, music is a compulsion, not a choice. (Of course, as parents, we worry about the financial side but a child that's determined to follow a music career shouldn't be).
In all honesty, I haven't found my degree any real use as a performer but it would be useful if I wanted to study arts admin.or for a PGCE, for example.
Music colleges these days are fantastic at preparing students for life in the working world; they teach about social media presence, networking etc and prepare students for session work, West End shows etc, not just classical orchestral/soloist careers. In my day, we had next to no career advice.

wow so much advice THANK YOU!
Icould that's so interesting about the joint course. DS is on track to make the required grades and is good at having no life poor thing but I'm not sure he wants to continue with his no-life life!!
loose yes we looked at Imperial thanks. He would have to do Music, Physics and Maths A Level. That would not allow him to do English A Level which he's really keen on at the moment. The HOD thinks he could easily do 4 A levels (school not keen on 4 A levels but could be persuaded according to HOD). But DS is not keen on 4 right now, his school have lots of interesting electives on top of the core and he was also looking forward to having more time for music.
Floot a very enlightening post txs so much.

Such a great insightful post Floot, thank you!

drummers I would never try to talk him out of English! Wish I could persuade DS1 to do it. Maybe when he gets his actual results he might realise it’s for him!

Done. Phew.

Such an interesting debate on A level selection impacting HE choices. Thank you to those with older DC and past experiences, such a minefield but floot's comment on progressive career discussions vs the past is also very encouraging to hear, for those choosing music at higher level.

A very weldone to mini Ealing! Fingers crossed for the best result. We chose A1, B1 and C1, C1 was only chosen about 3-4 weeks ago, B1 was chosen for 5 months somethibg however not in lessons till Sept. We are still not great with scales and aural(failed to sing to repeat the playing every single time and just purely “hate”— such a strong but true word— scales, 75% of the practise time is me nagging her on scales. She says she knows them but she doesnt. I ended making scales jar as suggested here).

Taggie, I am sorry to ask how old is miniTaggie, I showed my daughter the video(along with others video today) and we love it!

I will try to record one of our the piano pieces we are learning this weekend and share to make up my missing contribution

Well done miniealing.
green it sounds like she'll be alright. Those scales look yummy.

Greenleave - DS2 is 9.5. Thanks so much for the compliment. I'll pass it on to DS2. I think his enthusiasm for the piece really shone through.

Trumpet (and others in early years of secondary and wrestling with the specialist/non specialist debate) - dd now has a two hour practice session per week at school, in place of a sport. Lots of sports scholars of all types at her school use that same slot to have specialist sports training at their own clubs, so dd asked if she could have the same flexibility and without a murmur it was granted! it is unsupervised but often one of the staff will drop in for a chat. I agreed on the basis she swims three times a week plus does other school sports, so she is not short of physical exercise, so missing one sport she loathes and which she is wary of in case of finger damage, is no big deal. Amazing what a child can get if they ask!

We will definitely be going into ask String !! I did speak to school yesterday after ds had seemed totally overwhelmed on Monday morning ( in hindsight I think he was feeling unwell) they know how busy he is and do try to be helpful I guess we will just have to see what they say . I do wonder though if flexibility is more easily achieved in an independent school though our other local high school can be quite flexible for the minority of students who are pursuing sport music or drama at a high level so I might point that out the thing is ds would never dream of not trying or handing in rubbish homework which means he does well in most subjects ( but he puts himself under unnecessary pressure really)

Well done mini Ealing hope she continues to feel better

Trumpet - you may be right; dd is the same re academics and to be honest this is the best outcome we could have hoped for, as there really is limited time in the evening esp given i work so often don't pick up until late and we leave home early in the am

I agree double degrees cannot be taken lightheartedly. But they are designed for those who thrive on challenges. drummers's DS sounds very much capable if that's what he wants.

Well done miniearling!

Green, we are thinking to go for A1 & B1 also, but not 100% certain yet. Need to talk to the teacher. C piece is almost decided near 100% as DS loves it a lot. Looking forward to listening to the recording!

Well done to ministring to gain the flexibility. Trumpet, I do also wonder if states offer the same flexibility. DS will probably go to state school so curious to know. Although PE is only twice a week (3 hours) at the school, so not sure if we want to eliminate for music practice.

Although we probably don't need the negotiation yet as DS's teacher doesn't ask a lot of practice and sounds like it will stay this way for a while.

Also..., it hasn't been a long while yet since DS became like this (music mad?). Half of me think he may find something else at secondary, then no need to increase practice time. Let's see...

drummers I know someone in the Music dept at Manchester who might be able to advise re the joint degree. It sounds pretty good.

As floot said there are so many paths to being a musician. And so many away from it. The three most successful ones I know (one plays in a world-famous small classical group and got in straight out of the RAM; one conducts & plays solos with his own orchestra, touring Euope every year & the world every few years; one is a world-known soloist/ conductor of his own opera company) are all notable for their seriousness of purpose, and extremely professional work ethic from a very early age. Their contemporaries had a great time partying at uni/ National Music Camp while they went for a quiet beer with their conductors/ professors to discuss the finer points of ornamentation in Stamitz or Gabrieli or Clementi. I suspect they would all stringly approve of the joint degree (two did university music followed by performance postgrad; one did conservatoire music followed by musicology PhD).