November Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

New month, new thread! This is a place for musicians and parents of musicians, from complete beginners to experienced and everything in between, to talk about everything to do with music! Previous threads have covered exams, practice, scales, instrument hire and purchase, theory, composition, aural woes, auditions, scholarship preparation and much more.

I started these threads when my 12 year old daughter Goo was 6 and preparing for Grade 1. I never thought we'd still be going, 6 years later! I appreciated all the advice I was given back then, and try to repay that when I can.

Goo plays the flute and piano (she has been learning the piano for 18 months but has yet to perform - ever) and has no exams lined up at the moment. I also have Rara who is 9, and working towards her third Grade 3, on the clarinet. The other two were on the cello and recorder. She's more interested in art and reading, and currently swims five times a week.

I am a teacher of woodwind, and Wednesday is my day from you-know-where... full-on from 6.30 am until 10 pm, and about to get worse!!

I thought starting with recorder then progressing to clarinet then adding oboe/bassoon/sax later on would be common progression for woodwind instrumentalists. Well apparently these days children can start straight with bassoon by using the baby versions though. So, woolley's DD playing bassoon and clarinet is actually a perfect choice for 1st and 2nd?

Good luck to your DD, woolley, with the exam next term (both in music and 11+)!

Certainly ds at AYM is discouraged from learning too many instruments to avoid exactly the situation you have described Floot . So they only sort of know about the singing lessons !!though ds did have good reason to take them up ( really to help him with grade 8 aural ) though i think he quite likes them . They have also encouraged him to think carefully about which bands and orchestras he plays in to help him make the most of his time- and to give himself some time off !! You can't be really good if you spread yourself too thinly

With all due respect flootoot I'm not sure how that situation bares any relation to our own, in any way.

For starters, we consulted with the clarinet teacher before taking up another instrument so as not to interfere with embouchure, advised against saxophone which was first choice but advised that bassoon would be fine. We let her teacher know when she was awarded a year of lessons free, staring September 16, and her practice hasn't changed because she has an exam.

Secondly, if you are going to teach peripatetically in an independent prep school then you must know, or certainly should know, that the Autumn term of year 6 is going to be spent preparing for entrance exams. And that this preparation extends to outside of school and may with the best of intentions interfere with practice time. To make the assumption that bassoon is interfering when you know this is somewhat offensive.

Many of dd's peers learn two instruments, it's certainly not unusual, and it isn't on this thread either. I don't seem to have mentioned anywhere that I'm anticipating she will be taking up another three.

Double - how dies your dd find sax and oboe? My dd frustrated as wants to try oboe but clarinet teacher has said no on basis it will ruin her technique. Am wondering whether this strength ofcredponse is justified....

Strength if objection - sorry for typos!

I should add that ds learns piano as his second instrument so singing makes 3!! And I totally agree Wolley that the teacher should know about the pressures in year 6 for finding high school places sometimes I think teachers just forget quite how much our children are taking on ( certainly ds does far more than I ever did )

Hi, can I jump in with a question? Does anyone know about guitars? DS1 has been learning for a couple of years now and wants a new guitar for Christmas. He currently has a classical guitar and would like an electro-acoustic one (not that he's likely to need to plug it into an amp any time soon, mind you!). His current guitar came from a charity shop to see how he got on with it so I don't really know what I'm looking for in a new one. I'm not even sure if his is 3/4 or full size. It's about 37" top to bottom. If I get something like this cheap guitar here is it likely to be any good? Thanks!

When I informed DS's violin teacher about him taking a piano exam next term, she was all so encouraging saying taking exams would be a good experience. She then added DS should continue studying both instruments for a while, as keyboard skill is always very useful, but then he should focus on violin by the time he reaches 12-13 yo.

She doesn't mean he should stop playing the piano, but she thinks it'd be best to keep it minimum so that he can devote himself to violin at necessary level. She even said no to taking up viola which I thought very common for violinists to learn. She also warned him not to take up too many orchestral commitments. He is in only one orchestra this academic year so it's OK, but once DS starts secondary he'll have a duty to join school orchestras and she said I should be careful about scheduling his week and never over-scheduled with too many musical activities unnecessarily.

It would be a lot manageable if you are at a specialist school, but if you decide to stay at a normal schooling system, it'll be all about making priority.

Of course, all those suggestions are only if DS continues to be passionate about violin. In a couple of years time, he may say, 'meh!'.

String - there doesn't seem to be an issue between oboe and sax for DD. Perhaps it is because her embouchure for oboe was well established before she took up sax. She says she doesn't notice it too much these days although it is easier to go from practicing her oboe to her sax - as she put it, going from small to large. It's more a time thing for her.

Hi Blue eyeshadow,
I probably wouldn’t go for that electro acoustic.....I play guitar (well used too...), go to you nearest music shop and they’ll prob alt have a selection of ones you can try, or your ds can try out.
There’s a few decent makes out there for children. I would highly recommend a Tanglewood electro acoustic- good value for what you get. A bit more than £90 though- probably £150- but worth it.
Most cheaper guitars will have terrible action, and so will sound terrible- so will be a waste of money. Invest in a good one, and you’ll be fine till he needs a full size.

Woolley, sounds like our DD's won't be in the same performance workshop, but they might overlap on the other workshops. They will also be in the same massed ensemble group. If you are going, take a good book! There are a few stalls to look round, but not much else to do other than the lunchtime concerts and the ensemble at the end. We have to stay until last knockings as DD1 is in the 14 and over group. The building is like a black hole as far as phone reception goes too.

I have an impression that woodwind/brass instruments don't require as regular maintenance as string instruments? We have to take care of the body/strings but also the bow (and hair)! Correct me if I'm wrong - preferred to be educated correctly!

Which instrument do you think is most high-maintenance?? And which instrument does require more accessories?

For instance, violinists need a chin rest, shoulder rest, practice mute and concert mute, rosin, cloth for wiping the rosin off (I was advised to keep two clothes), maybe tuner if you use one, and a couple of bows if you can afford. I also carry a rain cover for the case.

If you play double bass you need a chair to carry around (I see those young double bass players at JD carrying the huge instrument and chair on top of music, lunch pack and other personal goods, going the stairs ups and downs). Oh and, harp needs wheels to carry around...

We're supposed to get wind instruments completely stripped, pads replaced etc - ie total overhaul, every year. I probably have it done every 10 years (and I have an expensive clarinet, a few flutes and two saxophones) because it costs so much. We have to clean out and wipe off reeds after every playing. Accessories include reeds, various ligatures, pull through cloths, polishing cloths, slings (different ones for me and Rara) an additional thumb rest (Rara), and clarinet, saxophone, flute and piccolo stands! I do more with the clarinets and flutes than Rara's cello.

I do more with the clarinets and flutes than Rara's cello
Do you think it's because you are a woodwind player?

Kutik - dd’s clarinets are far more high maintenance than her cellos. I was shocked at how sensitive they can be - and booking services and repairs can be difficult, with long waiting lists - never have that problem with the cello where we can usually just rock up at a shop and get things sorted.

No, I've just never had to change a string! She rarely has problems with them, and her teacher did one when it needed doing. We tend to pop a bit of rosin on occasionally, and that's kind of it... She does struggle to carry the cello and spike rest around though, so tends to have an entourage.

Double - many thanks

We too - like Kutik- have been told dd will need to choose soon, and the other instrument will have to be recreational option only esp if dd has any aspirations to be a professional. We are struggling slightly in yr 7 to please both teachers while adjusting to homework etc. Also need to reduce school music commitments a bit next term I think and look at what she must do as a scholar and pick just one or two more rather than the current full diary!

So glad I popped this question as it seems I have been already corrected and re-educated.

Suppose cello is less demanding than violin. I heard once that cello wouldn't require changing strings as much as violin (but again, not sure if it's true).

Why is it so complicated to book services and repairs for clarinets?

It seems so young to choose, and so different to when I was growing up. I imagine this is if she wants to be a professional soloist/ orchestral performer? I think if she wanted to teach a variety of things, for example, she could specialise very much later. Goo chose flute over recorder about 18 months ago, for funding and time reasons - she needed to start piano too - but probably isn't good enough to play for a living. Her practice is minimal at the moment.

Choosing and focusing on one instrument won't be a problem for DS as he already knows which one is more important to him. Stopping the youth orchestra would be a heartache for him though. But if he has to choose between the youth and school's, he has to choose school's...

I feel like Goo is still playing catch-up with piano, let alone choosing one yet.

it’s a complete fallacy that more playing more instruments necessarily means a lower standard. DS3 played violin, a bit of viola, trumpet, piano, organ, sang too. Oxford music degree and then maths lead to a fun career where all these things continue to make him happy and employable!

Waffle, DS teacher was a scholar at a conservatoire and studied violin and piano as her first study (but then she is/ was a violinist not a pianist). So when she said DS would have to focus on violin in a not so far distance, I pointed the fact that she carried on studying both instruments as her fist study at a conservatoire level. Her reply was it was fine then but not now.

Anyway, DS enjoys playing the piano. But he wouldn't complain if he is asked to keep the practice minimum!

Noteven, of course! I don't think playing more instruments means a lower standard at all. In fact, it's so clear that DS benefited hugely by playing two instruments. Both complimented each other, and in some ways contributed his progress, and certainly made him more rounded as a musician.

Waffle, I wish I could let DS try other instruments. But we too cannot make it happen due to financial and time reason. The teacher's suggestion was a bit of relief to me, to be honest.... Knowing we are allowed to focus on just one...

Piano has been pushed to the back seat and ignored pretty much for more than a year now. It's only starting to get the attention again, due to the prospect of taking an exam next term. Basically DS just doesn't have time for piano. He has got a normal life of 10 years old which is filled with lots activities like school, swimming, football, homework, music, playdates, family dos, and so on....