November Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

New month, new thread! This is a place for musicians and parents of musicians, from complete beginners to experienced and everything in between, to talk about everything to do with music! Previous threads have covered exams, practice, scales, instrument hire and purchase, theory, composition, aural woes, auditions, scholarship preparation and much more.

I started these threads when my 12 year old daughter Goo was 6 and preparing for Grade 1. I never thought we'd still be going, 6 years later! I appreciated all the advice I was given back then, and try to repay that when I can.

Goo plays the flute and piano (she has been learning the piano for 18 months but has yet to perform - ever) and has no exams lined up at the moment. I also have Rara who is 9, and working towards her third Grade 3, on the clarinet. The other two were on the cello and recorder. She's more interested in art and reading, and currently swims five times a week.

I am a teacher of woodwind, and Wednesday is my day from you-know-where... full-on from 6.30 am until 10 pm, and about to get worse!!

No perfect pitch here either Kutik.
I bet they’ll both say ‘I told you so’ about the piano tuning

Paul, as you may know, just because your DD is playing G7 pieces (or standard) doesn't mean she is at the standard. She may be working a way above the level required to pass the exam. A boy who DS admires from the bottom of his heart already passed G8 in Year 6. A year later or so, his former violin teacher (and DS's former teacher) invited him to join and perform a solo piece at an end of term concert. He played a piece which was listed for G6. But obviously his playing standard was a way above so it had much more depth in his performance.

One of the pieces DS has been given recently is listed for G7 in the past. But his teacher tells him he's got to aim to play at G77 standard instead.

Kutik, you have got me thinking about our piano, which DD plays, that was last tuned around 1999. It is an old Welsh upright inherited from MIL. It is a circa 1920 Marshall & Rose. DD has complained about one key being sticky and two out of tune, but I was planning to get it tuned some time in the future when more convenient..

although it might be cheaper to buy a new one.

Yes, its interesting going back to g3/4 pieces and replaying them, as they sound so much more polished and nuanced, and that's without practising for weeks.

School run. I am LATE!

a study of beats
kutik that was absolutely mad
I will see when DS has time if I can get him interested.

We have a baby grand here. Piano tuner said once the student gets beyond G6 (and thus the required amount of practice) twice a year tuning is minimum. Do you move the piano ever? Or is it next to a radiator r/in a conservatory? That'll affect tuning.

Well we have un upright Yamaha from the fifties and that's the piano DS practised on all the way past g8 and to this day we tune once every two years! We wait for DH or DS to complain and then we call the tuner. It now needs more than a tuning, it needs some work on some of the hammer felts etc. But there is no money, so it stays as it is for now...

drummers, yes, please let him have a go if pos! DS and I just collapsed into laughter every time we tried. It was hilarious.

Prada, DS and DH plays football in the room.... They use a softy baby ball though... That rings the bell....

And actually it's one of the goals in their game...

Is it only me who can hear Beethoven's Symphony No. 5...?

DS2 does have perfect pitch, they use him in choir to give the note! I was told he'd have problems playing trombone because of it but nobody told him that and he's just got on with it!

Our piano (upright Yamaha) was tuned about year to 18 months ago and is ok I think.

Only DS2 really plays it though. I know his piano teacher's needs tuning much more often

raspberry does he have difficulty when the choir's tuning slips, or when they're singing at a different pitch (if they ever do - our cathedral only very rarely does stuff with viols so doesn't often get to sing at 415)?

I've only known one person with perfect pitch, she was bloody-minded in the extreme so used to sing the solo in Stanford's Bluebird at correct pitch even as the choir sank down a semitone... she knew perfectly well what she was doing and maintained that it was the choir with the problem (well yes it was, but that didn't really help...)

Drummers thanks for the list. They're not on there. Mystery little cup things!

The girl I know who has perfect pitch plays violin. Her mum was warned it would be a problem to play in ensemble/orchestra. Not sure how true it is. She doesn’t have any problem so far (but she is still quite tiny).

Which instrument would be most suited or beneficial for those who has perfect pitch if trombone/violin are regarded not to be ideal?

The issue with perfect pitch is what the person recognizes as a particular note. If you train a perfectly pitched kid exclusively with a piano in equal temperament their idea of what the notes other than a are will be slightly wrong, even if consistently so. Same for any other tuning system. If tuning always is notes rather than intervals wheree do they put their pythagorean comma?

So I guess it is a disadvantage anywhere where one has to transpose (extra thought required) or adapt rapidly between perfect intervals and equal temperament or whstever other tuning system is being used (piano trio kind of territory where violin and cello need to tune to the piano rather than in 5ths).

Kutik it just develops, particularly in children who start music lessons before the age of 5. So those that know they have it are already usually learning something! Some cope just fine with transposing instruments (adapting to perfect pitch in Bb or whatever) and some hate them. I don't think there are better or worse instruments as such... you tend to get used to what you are learning.

Part of our psychology of music course at university was about all the ways in which perfect pitch isn't actually perfect!

Interesting. I thought pitch perfect which can be developed by training is still relative pitch, whereas perfect pitch is something you are born with. So even those who never had any musical training still have it.

I agree you just get used to what you are learning. So everyone who have and haven't perfect pitch will be trained to adjust their way accordingly.

There might be people born with it who will never know. But it usually develops by age 5-6, by exposure. Really, it's just a good memory.

Professionals and many amateur musicians will have good relative pitch - it's all to do with knowledge of intervals, isn't it? So you can see a score and sing it from any starting note. And so on...

Miniprada has perfect pitch and plays the Violin. It was idebrifues during the music auditions for secondary schools by a director of music. Never been an issue. She can identity the note of random things like a squeaky folding chair at a station or a hornet at the window. It's a bit freaky.

We were walking in rain together, and the little girl I mentioned started humming the notes of raindrops! She does this kind ever so innocently because it's nothing surprising to her. Interesting!

Ah! Just dropped the application form and references at a school DS is sitting/auditioning in January! Yes, I delivered in person due to the deadline problem... Ha ha.

After all, I didn't enclose the summary - so just the form and a few references put together in A4 envelope. DS's school's head teacher kindly wrote one with a note explaining her school doesn't have head of music (thank you Prada for your advice on this!). In the end, there were quite a few and well balanced collection of references. I felt it would be enough. Sometimes less is more!

Waffle kindly consulted and cleared my worries in many ways. Basically I kept her busy during her precious weekend - sorry, but big thank you.

Fingers crossed Kutik! Thinking of you x

Well done Kutik- good luck !!

Good luck Kutik!

Continuing the thought about relative vs absolute pitch Waffle I have only just realised what a total minefield baroque recorder music is woth all the French vs German, Chorton vs Kammerton pitch issues requiring complicated "Well if i have a treble voice flute in d playing in g minor it will sound in e minor" kind of decisions. I had got out Gottes Zeit ist die Allerbeste Zeit to see if I could play it (had been listening / watching the Leonhardt, Koopman, Gardiner recordings - one where Gardiner is, unusually, far better than Leonhardt). Couldn't work out why the pitch was wrong until I realised the edition writer didn't realise it was written for French pitch trebles...