July Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

I was celebrating the end of a VERY busy week with a glass of and realised it's now just past midnight, and therefore July! Have a new thread!

The music threads are for ALL musicians, young and old, beginners and advanced, and every style of music!

I have two DDs, Goo (11) who is currently stropping and eye-rolling her way through her last few weeks at primary school, and Rara (9) who is funny and creative. Goo is working towards Grade 8 Flute, and has been playing the piano for just over a year. She is refusing to take any exams or perform on it though. Rara has her Grade 3 Cello exam coming up soon, and is just moving beyond Grade 2 Clarinet now. Both played the recorder from age 3/4 and got to a really good level, but other than helping out with my school groups, they don't really play any more - they are particularly obsessed with the flute and clarinet.

I am a teacher of woodwind - currently about 80 recorder pupils (many group taught) in two schools, plus two private flute pupils and six private clarinet pupils.

Well done for all the various exam results and good luck to Rara for tomorrow!

Rara has exam tomorrow?? Huge good luck to her!

Great result for minionly too!

only well done to your minis for the exam and for the solo.

Best of luck to Rara and your teen student Waffle!

Mine had a tummy bug and was sent home from school, it was bad that we couldnt go to the lesson last night.

Only, many congratulations to your son's great result!

@Your question about how parents didnt do much for a child's music. I think some of us think its an extra curr activity, we dont play and dont aporeciate classical music as much, sports( especially swim in my opinion ) ismore important to the children's health and mental development. I could have been the same. I was travelling last week then been having a tough time at work, my energy is very little on music or anything else these days, pretty much this thread keeps our music going. My daughter had a re-audition last Sunday with her current Orchestra and I didnt know what she played until last night when my piano teacher asked how did it go then I realised I didnt ask in details. What also has been happening is my sweet little girl seems like changing, she is still giggling and happy and playful however doesnt like me to hold or giving her kisses/cuddle. Last night we watched some videos together and she sat on my lap, and I wanted it never ends. I read "get out of my life but first take me and Alex into town" and dreadful my time might have come early.

good luck rara!

Only, I think people can have very different expectations of music lessons, and its not necessarily related to ignorance about music education, although of course it can be. For some people learning and mastering an instrument is an important part of a well rounded education (sometimes regardless of whether or not the child has any interest) and parents make sure practice is done properly daily, seek out additional music opportunities, and are generally quite driven on behalf of their kids.

You also have families where the parents are happy to pay for music lessons if their child wants them but they have no particular 'investment' in music as being important, it's just for fun, so practice is entirely down to the child themselves and any extra music opportunities are either child (or perhaps teacher) driven.

Then of course you have parents who actively discourage because for example they can't stand the noise of beginners practicing.... and so many variations in between.

There is also a wide variation in how much good practice help parents can give. One of my friends was learning cello with her daughter on a suzuki type program and she asked one of the other mothers in the class where she got her cello, and it turned out that mother had been a professional cellist before she had kids. Now that doesn't guarantee anything but if you can read music and play the instrument your kid is learning then you are in a much better position to help with practice...
I can't play any of the instruments my kids play but I do read music - this has caused more than a few strops from the kids when I point out they are playing something incorrectly but it has avoided then learning in mistakes, which even they will admit is actually a good thing. After all it is not so much practice makes perfect as practice makes permanent

Well done minionly! Very good result!

On the subject of music lessons at school I was talking about it once with my dd's piano teacher as she is also teaching violin in schools (and privately). She was just venting her frustration at the fact that she had various school students who showed readiness for their exams, entered them and then the practice and effort is not there. She was asking me why do I think this is the case generally with school pupils, what do I do differently to ensure dd is practising, progressing and delivering.

We reach the conclusion in our conversation that each parent sees activities differently. For example dd does a sport as a school activity and it never crossed my mind to do extra practice at home. Because for me that sport is just an opportunity to go and run, burn calories and keep fit but I don't want dd to go into competitions and I couldn't care less if she wins a game with the school team or not. Nothing is stopping dd though to do extra practice if she wanted to but she doesn't so we're happy that way.

It is I assume the same with music, some parents do want their kids to have the opportunity to learn how to read music and play an instrument but the highlight is probably another activity in their life or the academics results. If the kids show a real interest then they can self motivate and practice and progress. These cases dd's teacher was telling me, are the one that end up requiring of private outside school lessons as the parents can see their dcs really enjoy it.

kutik Yes! to your third approach to entering exams.

Alexandra I really sympathise and relate to your cautionary tales of The Boy's scatterbrainedness. I still worry about 18YO DS leaving things on trains etc. We have lost so many music stands over the years. And it's a worry. At least my son's instrument is unlikely to be stolen as it's a double bass.

minionly Very well done to your DD. Excellent result.

Very interesting to hear other posters' opinions about different approaches to instrument lessons and practice.

Waffle I meant to say several pages ago that I'm very impressed with your cycling to your work. You come across as someone who will be a lovely teacher.

fleur I think that's really well put and I like the comparison with school sport. I was talking to a friend about this the other day. Her little one is very committed to activities but is keen to have school violin lessons. They've agreed that it will be something she enjoys at school but they won't have time to support outside of that. I'm sure if she decides she really loves it, they'd find a way but are the moment she just wants to try something for fun, a bit of time out of class and something different to do in school.
I have another friend who's little one loves her piano lessons, hates practising at home and they have agreed they're ok with that. She'll make much slower progress but she's happy.

Well done to TheSecond, miniLoose and miniOnly!

Waffle you must be pleased with your pupil's result. Good luck for Rara today, I'm sure she will sail through it. Hope the pupil does too.

DS2 got the results of his grade 1 violin yesterday (Trinity). He not only passed and got a distinction, but his teacher told him he got the highest mark in the borough (94/100). He is absolutely thrilled. So am I. I really want to push on now while he is so enthusiastic. We finally found out his new school yesterday and they don't offer violin lessons so I need to track down a good teacher for him.

Only - I do think parents having musical knowledge is a massive advantage. It has really helped DS2 that I can tell him when he's gone wrong (and why) and encourage him to practice. He was very grateful last night when he told me his result as he said he couldn't have done it without my help. I am sure he would have passed without my help but that bit of extra support has pushed him from a pass to a distinction. I also think it is difficult when your DC is having lessons in school and you don't generally have any contact with the teacher so you are relying on them telling you what they are supposed to be doing. If teachers had some way of communicating with parents that might help them to encourage their children to practice.

On a side note – those of you who have pianos – do you have them insured as a high value item on your contents insurance? I inherited mine and it's just occurred to me that I should probably list it, but I have no idea how much for.

I agree with all on the subject of the lack of parental support on music (or any extra-curricular).

DS has been doing lots activities for years yet extra practice at home has never existed (even for the sports he's been doing fairly competitively). He happens to be naturally good at all the activities he does, so the lack of extra work hasn't created any disheartening experience so far. If he'd been doing something he was not so natural, the lack of progress may have been too apparent but luckily he is not doing dance nor art. He just enjoys the experience, make friends and so on. But I am sure there are some kids/families who are quite serious with some of the activities DS does, and for those people we may appear to be ignorant or careless...

But, we cannot be 100% at everything at all the time - priorities and choices are so individual. I do see some kids with almost zero progress in spite of the long years of commitment, but I don't see any wrong to just have 'fun' (as long as the situation is not creating some negative effects on the kids). Of course it would be better to put some efforts and gain some skills, but there is nothing wrong with seeing extra-curricular as an opportunity for regular exercises/social places.

To confess, music was one of those 'fun' activities for us. It became more focused about a year ago (when DS was Y4).

Louey - yes, our piano is listed separately on the house contents. Valuation was easy as it's new so we just gave them the price we paid for it.

I think practice is a funny thing. With sports, you don't always expect to practice outside of the actual session - for example, my daughter has a swimming lesson once a week, and we sometimes go swimming as a family at the weekend, but the idea of swimming every day to practice is a bit bonkers. But with music, you have an instrument at home so I expect practice to happen most days. I don't always think that non-musical parents get that. Our neighbours mentioned that they wanted their children to learn an instrument, and I said I was holding off until my children were old enough to have some self motivation to practice, as I expect them to do it every day and it's no fun if I have to nag constantly. She looked a bit shocked at the every day practice thing.

Do teachers not use practice notebooks any more? I always had a notebook my teacher wrote down exercises to practice and notes on whatever we worked on, and what I was to focus on during the week, so both me and my parents had an idea of what was going on.

Practice notebooks sound great but unfortunately none of DS's teachers even mentioned it. We don't have any notebook to record what he is doing, supposed to be doing and so on.

Talking about the parental support and the lack of extra practice at home.... I was talking about primary school age. Therefore just having 'fun' without apparent progress would be totally fine (to me). But I would expect some responsibilities and commitments coming from the child for the activities they choose to do at secondary school age.

On a train, and haven't read everything. Floods of tears from Rara, who thinks she has failed by miles... I think she will squeak through! She had to work like a Trojan at the scales, then messed them up a little. She was asked for D major followed by D melodic minor, got them confused and didn't finish one of them. She also got the dominant 7th she doesn't like much. Her teacher felt that the pieces were secure (if a little shy). Rara says sight reading and musical knowledge were "OK" but would have liked them to have gone better. She never plays well on big occasions though, and we do know that!

Grade 7 girl played her pieces very, very well (for her) and said the exercises went well. She found the sight reading and aural very hard, but even if she gets 4-5 out of 10 for each, I think she will pass.

Waffle I am sure Rara will be ok.

Louey well done to your DS great result!

We do have practice diaries for each instrument and so do all dd's teacher violin students in school, she communicates with the parents through the practice diary but she does say that a lot of parents don't read them. This exam session she had a pupil who came to her lesson (after entering her for her exam) apparently playing the first of her exam pieces amazingly well. She said she could see she put in a lot of practice and praised her for it and then when moving to the next two pieces the pupil said "oh I haven't practised those". That was a week before the exam. The parents knew the child was entered for the exam.

Another one cancelled the last two lessons before the exam because they had otheractivities clashing with the lessons.

So yes, I do think that some parents don't get the fact that music needs practising at home and the majority of music learning happens in fact at home rather than in lesson compared with swimming for example where you learn how to swim during the actual lesson. They may believe that when the teacher says "X is ready to be entered for their grade 1 exam" everything has been covered in lesson rather than "X is ready to take the exam in a month's time if they work on polishing their pieces and keep their scales up to speed".

Fingers crossed for the results Waffle!

The notes the teachers left were foreign language to me. And if she says she has done them all I wont be able to figure out(non musical parents). What has been working for us with piano lesson was our teacher usually send an email when she hasnt done what she was asked during the week and suggest what I could do to supervise. He somehow translate the musical terms to a none musical parent who also has no musical ears. For example nearly a year ago when we learnt Am Abend(and mine did get nearly perfect mark for it) for her g5 piano, my teacher said "Green, there are 2 voices if you listen carefully, the soft and the faster, harder one. They need to be distinct and bend to each other". I didnt get this from my violin teachers. They both said they wrote everything carefully in the note and my daughter knows what to do. The thing is, this 9 years old child hasnt been able to practise on her own yet. On Monday she said she didnt like Rondinos and wanted to drop it, well, the exam is this Saturday, how someone without a teacher could learn a new piece for exam in a week so I told her it was her choice and she has to stick with it. She needs to start taking responsibility in her decisions now.

Alex: phew! Glad he didnt loose anything and had a good day in general.

Wanted to add that I also have very little time in the evening after work and putting the toddler to bed(usually 30mins for music only, this might have to give way to academic from next year as the risk she might not get to any selective secondary school)

For private lessons ( piano &a violin) we need practice at home. For school free recorder lessons, no practice at home. She started recorder from year3 and only did grade 1. Some her classmate only did step 2. But all of them got Distinction. She got highest one (97/100)

Green we've taken a massive risk with dd's 11+ as she should get into her brother's partially slective school on sibling rule providing he gets into sixth form. So based on this we haven't done any prep more than 20 min a week as and when we remember. I guess if she had an academic tutor (similar to music) they would have been very frustrated with the amount of work dd puts in.

We've decided that, hopefully when she gets into her new school based on her brother's hard work , we'll reassess the situation and hire a tutor if needed. In the meantime she has another year of not putting additional efforts academically but doing what she enjoys which at the moment is music.

She will still sit the exams though both academic and music aptitude test just to see how it goes.

We went to grammar school's open day yesterday. It was OK, but no spark. DS agreed. So it's official that there is no frantic 11+ preparation for us. We are so ready for the summer holiday!!!!!

Hello! I am sure Rara will be fine, it is upsetting when they are upset though. I think someone said that the ones crying when the exam is over are usually the ones that pass!

My DD is having a fabulous time at NSSO summer residential. Heard from her yesterday. Has two bears!

About lessons; our teacher always uses a notebook and details the particular bits that need to be worked on and how this should be done, ie, bar 16, dynamics!!. I also attend.

It was a conscious decision to take music seriously for me. A couple of years ago, I didn't even know that was a choice to be honest. I just wondered why other people's children were in national swim teams, county tennis teams, or doing something to a high level. So I talked to one mum, and she worked at it.

DD did ballet for two years. At the end of the second year I asked the teacher why DD hadn't "graduated" with most of the class and she said DD didn't try hard enough. It turns out DD hated ballet and couldn't see the point of toe pointing. Ballet over.

In tennis, she entered a small elite squad at a tennis centre. There, I came across mothers who sat for hours courtside with spare rackets, coconut water and a schedule of weekend tournaments within a 300 mile radius. They had no free time - they travelled all weekend for hours to attend competitions to go up the ranks. DD did not make the grade and didn't want to (thank you!). If the ball did not bounce right in front her, she glared over the net. Other children clearly revelled in the competition.

Very glad to be a music mother! By accident. DD was given a violin for school music lessons in Year 3. I noticed it was a 1/4 size and she was a tall 8 year old. There was only one 1/2 size and this went to another child. I was a bit irritated that she had been given an instrument too small for her, as she was very excited about playing. I bought her one and it went from there. I didn't know the scales so I looked them up. In eighteen months she is grade 4 (haven't had result yet!!), it is a big part of her life and she loves it. If I had left her with the 1/4 size instrument she wouldn't be at a residential right now. Not easy though, finding the time.

She will play tennis, dance, swim, but as fun. Had I known what I know now, I would have made more deliberate decisions with DS, 15 and maybe his specialist subject wouldn't be the xbox..

Talking about practice, dd hasn't done any for the last two days, one evening she got sent to bed due to dragging her clarinet on the floor and not stopping when asked, she's really pushing her boundaries lately and challenges everything I say/ask of her. Last night she had her school play so no time. Her teachers won't be impressed this week but I can see we all need a break so roll on summer holidays.

Can you notice that my systems at work are down therefore I am spending all my time on mumsnet?

DS did 6 months of piano. Hated it! He was 11 and didn't want to practice or see the point of it.

When dd was 4 my FIL started telling me she should do music lessons, preferably piano, as they were babysitting twice a week and he believed she had a musical ear. He's been a musician all his life and used to sing to her and later with her since she was a baby. Apparently she could sing in tune at age 2 and reproduce a song after hearing it just once (she still does that).

We kept dismissing it till she was 6. He kept mentioning it, I kept laughing and not doing anything about it. Anyway a week after she was 6 she started piano lessons as I decided to give it a go. As I sit in her lessons I kept up reasonably well with her knowledge so I could support at home. I didn't expect relatively good progress, definitely didn't think she'll be grade 5 at 9 after 3 and a half years of piano lessons and grade 3 clarinet after one year. Picking up a second instrument was a struggle, I didn't know what to do but I thought if she ever becomes serious about it she has a better chance.