Dance/ballet and audition feedback?

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Dd recently auditioned for Royal Ballet Junior Associates in Manchester and was not offered a place. No feedback given as to why not offered a place. And she's just attended an audition for Elmhurst Associates, just this weekend we're expecting the results shortly and I wondered if feedback or reasons are given if not accepted? I just think it would be useful to know.

Her dance teacher hasn't really offered anything other than Dd not having a lot of turnout yet (she's just 8 if that makes a difference? Ought she to have more turnout at 8 years?), but she thinks she compensates for that in other areas.

Feedback is not given to parents. Sometimes a teacher can request feedback but I'm not sure if that's for JA's or only Mids/WL entry.

Royal & Elmhurst are so particular. They look for facility (turnout, flexibility but not too much, body proportions, ratio of torso to legs etc & children develop at different rates.

Feedback not normal on any auditions ever - ballet, musical theatre, you name it...

Turnout is a huge thing for ballet and is mainly down to genetics and how your hip sockets are shaped. You can learn to maximise what turnout you have, but unless you are born the right shape you will never achieve the flat 180 that they aspire to. If you can't get to around 170 then the chances of being a professional classical ballerina are very slim.

That said, you can have the potential for 180 turnout and never use it effectively, or have the wrong proportions or flat feet or no musicality...

It's a whole mix of things that they look for, but RBS are very, very picky and can afford to be given the numbers trying.

Thank you Alexander, yes I think you're right and the teacher can request feedback for RB. Though I don't want her to go to that trouble, certainly.
I just wondered if we might expect any from Elmhurst, in the event of her not being accepted.

Yes, I know about turnout, and they do exercises to assess turnout potential in the auditions. She can get quite flat in those, so it may not be that. I'm not sure.

Turnout facility/potential and actual usable turnout are two different things. You can have good turnout facility when doing the assessment exercises for it, but are not yet old enough or physically strong enough to have developed the ability to sustain that turnout while actually dancing. This is very common in younger dancers.

I've heard that the numbers auditioning for JAs were higher than ever this year and there are only a handful of places at each venue, so it would be worth another go next time if her teacher suggests it.

You won't get feedback from Elmhurst either I don't think.

Next time English Youth Ballet are anywhere near you, perhaps let her audition for that.

Thank you! I'd forgotten about EYB.

Do you know at what age they would expect them to be more turned out and sustaining it whilst dancing? We know of a nine year old who appears to have almost flat turnout (and a JA incidentally) but that doesn't appear to be the norm.

Dd's teacher is constantly saying 'turnout, turnout' that I hear
Sorry for any silly questions, this is my poorly remembered knowledge from my very distant dancing days!

No, 180 flat turnout is relatively uncommon.

My dd had completely flat turnout right from birth (the paediatric doctor in the maternity unit was a bit disconcerted!!) and I would say it took until she was about 10 before she really started maintaining it away from the barre, and 15 before having full working control. The strength is something that has to be worked on constantly, particularly if you are on the hypermobile side, as a lot of flat-turnout people will know.

I know some people at Elmhurst have had feedback so it would be worth emailing the school and asking. Elmhurst certainly are looking for different things from Royal so you might yet get a place! Good luck, both of my dc have loved/ are loving their Elmhurst classes.

Don't be discouraged! We had a 'no' last year, and DD starts as a JA in September! A decision from DD that she wanted to keep trying, lots of practice, talking over corrections after each class and EYB were all things that happened between the two results. Little bodies develop a lot in a year, and so long as your DC enjoyed the experience and wasn't crushed by a negative result, another try won't do any harm!

My daughter did auditions for both elmhurst and royal ballet - she is a lovely dancer and is really keen . It worries me a little because she is not skinny, perfect in my eyes but we all have shape in my family ! It seemed to me that the majority of girls accepted appear to be extremely slim. My daughter actually commented on this herself. She is 9. To make it clear she is in no way over weight. Do you think it is a 'requirement' that small frame essential ?

They're not all extremely slim. What they do seem to have in common, in my own experience, is that they're fairly petite in height (but not always) and seem perfectly proportioned for ballet; the long limbs, short torso etc. They also seem to have very good technique already. Dance championships just at the weekend, a good number of children were also associates.

Ours danced with JAs and then onto BRB. She was (and is) tiny - size 2.5 feet and under 5ft. She has 180 turnout from birth too but has hypermobility so can achieve all sorts of contortions.
Her friends started off a variety of shapes but as they dropped out and the group changed through the senior associates they did become more homologous. Bouncing body parts don't really go with ballet and a slightness of frame makes for easier lifts.
Have you tried ENB?

She has 180 turnout from birth too but has hypermobility so can achieve all sorts of contortions

Ah, thought that would be the infamous crumbs... That explains it.

You do take it a bit far sometimes.

Sadly yes, related undoubtedly to connective tissue disorder that might well cause significant problems in later life. One of her sisters has EDS and is also hypermobile but it prevented her doing many sports or dancing as her knees just gave way. Nasty cynical attitude to life!