what age to start piano if DC is keen?

[happilyLostCareer]

I'm not yet at the stage of finding DS a teacher as he is only 7 months old, and who knows, in a few years he may well prefer lego to music (though at the moment he is very keen on music and recognizes tunes — probably much like most babies).

Anyway.

Was talking to 2 friends about music lessons. Friend 1 has 3 kids, the 6yo started recorder this year, the others are 5 and 3 and more interested but apparently too young. Friend 1 played cello to semiprofessional level before kids. She thinks go with the child, some 3 yo kids are going to be ready for lessons, some 8 yo kids might still be too young — but she also says the sooner they start, the easier it is to learn everything.

Friend 2 has 2 kids. Has never played an instrument and doesn't like classical music, but is a developmental psychologist and thinks kids should learn music from age 6, no earlier. Her 7yo DD learns flute but isn't interested -possibly because she never hears classical music. Her 4yo DD would probably have the attention span, determination and interest to be learning now, but mum says she absolutely shouldn't start until 6.

Meanwhile I grew up in a demographic where kids started piano, singing and very basic theory at 3 or 4, second & third instruments at 5 or 6. Anything later was seen as too late for anything other than just doing it for fun (nothing wrong with fun, but don't expect to catch up with your peers or be a musician).

I suspect going with the individual child is sensible, looking at attention span, perseverance, interest, dexterity etc. But is any age just really way too young?

I'm interested in hearing people's views on this as I didn't want to start daughter too early in case it puts her off.( 6 years)

I think if a child really wants to learn and has the enthusiasm then they'll do well at whatever age you start them.

DH and I are not from musical families at all so never really considered it for our DC until they asked - DS1 started guitar and piano at the beginning of this year when he was 8.5yo. He is absolutely loving it! Practices without being told and is flying through the theory and practical and rapidly catching up with some of his friends who've been learning longer.

DS2 is 7yo and at the moment he doesn't want to do lessons so we'll wait until he asks to.

I'm a firm believer in that if you push them too much too soon it'll backfire so child led would be my advice

I know serious professional pianists, they started training at 7 y.o.

Depends on the child surely. DS pestered ms when he was 3. He was/is properly musical. Started the violin at 3.5 and 2 years later is doing v well. Practises voluntarily for 20-30 mins each day. And so after a second round of pestering we are starting a 2nd instrument this summer. We are not at all musical but hugely enjoy classical music. We go to lots of concerts and DS has been exposed to it from a young age.

OP I came from a family like yours. You could have been describing our community.

I wanted the same for my boys but I soon realised the cost you have to weigh up. Obviously the financial and time costs are great. Then, are you willing to have battles over practice times? Willing to do musical activities at the expense of other things like sport, art or family leisure time (you need to decide priorities).

In our family of four, we were all forced to play instruments from age 3. One became a professional musician. One still plays a bit. The other two never play. My mother questions whether she would do it again because we missed out on so much so that we could invest in music.

Both my boys learnt piano from age 5, and both didn't like it, so we let them give it up. One is now learning an orchestral instrument (started at 8.5) the other is about to start one too at 8.5.

There is the most amazingly rich payoff when music lessons work well. When they don't, it can be a huge waste of time and money. I heard on Freakonomics (amazing source I know..) that of all the childhood activities, music lessons have the least reward for investment.

emesis -sorry to hear it didn't work out, though good to hear your boys are able to build on early piano & take up other instruments.

I would only put lots of effort in if DS loved it. He has huge hands so will be big enough to play once he has the coordination, though of course may not have the attention span or interest for some time (or at all) after. Who knows. At the moment he is basically only interested in listening to music, dancing, bashing the piano/glockenspiel, being sung or played to, and people, so it seems like we may be getting into the territory of instruments in a few years.

My little one started piano and recorder at 5 and clarinet at 6. She has an amazing teacher with a real affinity for teaching a little one who worked super hard to make sure she was taking at the right pace, doing things age appropriately etc. Combined with lots of live music, workshops, ensemble fun etc, my little one is making great progress but more importantly has a real love for music.
She has friends who learnt Suzuki violin age 3-4 then friends who are starting instruments age 8.... I think it's really an "individual child" decision.

I don't think there is such a thing as too late. Well, obviously it is too late for me to now start piano and become a concert pianist but isn't that a frame of mind? Who knows what I would actually achieve if I really really wanted it, I never heard of people not going to a piano recital because the pianist started piano late or is too old.

Back to children, I think the ideal age is when they are ready and want to do it. Music requires such a huge amount of practice (deceiving initially as 10 min a day seems to be enough in the early stages) and parental input initially that learning an instrument desire needs to come from the dc in my opinion.

Ideal age I'd say 5/6 for the traditional method (but even 7-10 is not "too late") earlier if the Suzuki method is used.

In our case dd started piano at 6 and second instrument at 8. Due to the experience reading music and being older she is grade 3 in a year after starting the clarinet so I don't think that starting the second instrument later held her back. We wanted piano playing to be properly established as a fist instrument before introducing a new instrument.

I do think dd wouldn't have been ready earlier than 6 at all. She progressed really quick on piano but that's because she could see results. If she would have started at 4/5 I think she would have stalled being so young and give up as no results were coming through.

Agree with pp, it's an 'it depends on the individual child' thing.
I'm surprised your friend is so rigid - as a psychologist, she should know every child is different.
Eileen Joyce didn't start until 10. Much older than that would probably be 'too late' to become a professional, but lots of people are decent amateurs and play for the joy of it.
I'm doing grade 4 now, started at 11, was made to feel crap by the prodigies as a kid so gave up. My friend was a prodigy, started at 5 or 6, grade 8 at 12, advanced certificate and diploma while still at school. She had a mental breakdown and doesn't play at all now. Obviously that's an extreme case, I'm just saying starting young isn't everything.
Big hands aren't necessarily an advantage btw.
See how your DS develops. Enjoy your baby

Age seven

I started an instrument at 8 & until I changed my mind in y11 was on my way to music college. Most other friends did the same, including those who are professional.

It's about the dedication of the student.

You sound very balanced OP but not all parents who start very young are so balanced and end up pushing and driving their childrens sports, music, drama hobbies more.

thanks all. I definitely think it's down to the individual kid and absolutely not worth pushing if kid isn't interested or just doesn't have the attention span yet.

I agree huge hands mean little - I just had very very small hands and struggled with piano for a long time as I couldn't really reach the spans required.

Also, where we live, the teaching provision is ok but not outstanding, so pushing him to be at the level of a RCM junior associate by age 6 or RSCM gold or something is utterly pointless as there's nothing of that standard here. I'd rather he learnt at a pace that meant he still loves music as much as I do as an adult, and if that means grade 4 aged 16 and nothing other than going to concerts for the rest of his life - well, mission achieved cos he'll be going to concerts and enjoying them.

My DD first sat down at a friend's piano when she was 3. Never wanted lessons, has never had a lesson but has just sat her Higher Music exam playing a grade 7/8 piece. She's entirely self taught from phone apps and YouTube. We bought a rickety old piano when she was 12 and upgraded just over a year ago to a digital baby grand. She is naturally musically gifted, plays electric and acoustic guitar as well as the violin, and can play everything from complex classical and movie soundtrack stuff to rock, pop and indie on the piano (she plays a blinding version of Bohemian Rhapsody). So it really depends on your child and whether they want proper lessons, or just to tinker, or actually have no interest in music at all.

Fleurdelise -just out of interest did your DD read music before she started piano, or read/write before she started school?

It's another area where I am feeling my way a bit- neither DH nor I can remember learning to read, write or read music, as we were each reading at 2 and writing at 3, and reading music at 3. That was normal back then - don't remember any school classroom time being devoted to teaching actual reading, or writing; and there was an assumption kids could read music by about year 2 as well. So i have no idea how/ whether to teach DS when he is ready!

The teacher we use says youngest she will teach is 7. She teaches at a prestigious music school as well and her view is 'let kids be kids'. They will pick things up a lot quicker at that age or older. So a younger kid may as well just play around without formal lessons until they are old enough or ready.

happily no, dd is summer born (August) and we felt she'd be somehow cheated of extra time of being a child without academic targets as she started school two weeks after turning four. So the learning process before school started was all around play and driven by her, we didn't formally teach her anything with a plan, she asked we answered. She knew some letters and numbers by the time she started school, she could obviously count and do simple addition.

She loved books and still does (she's 9 now) and reads huge amounts. Books, music and Lego are her love.

But we did nurture them. The moment she could read we ensure no day goes by without her reading to us and us to her (we were reading to her since she was a baby). The moment she started piano we ensured no day goes by without facilitating practice, 10 min initially now when she's imminently taking grade 5 piano and 3 clarinet exams it's more like an hour (minimum) to an hour and a half of music practice a day.

Dd's piano teacher doesn't take pupils before 6 yo but that is a general statement, she does an assessment lesson and if the child can sit and take information in for 30 min she takes them whatever the age. The youngest she had was a 4yo but while she could sit still and absorb info there wasn't much progress, it took her 3 years to get to grade 1.

I would say it definitely depends on the child! I've never steered mine towards a certain instrument but encouraged them to have a go if they were interested. They love music because they chose to do it - but even so be prepared to chivvy!
I took the same approach to reading - read lots to them before school, made up stories with them and made sure they saw me reading and that they had lots of books. I didn't teach them to read and write before school because they didn't want to. When they started school they soon learned and became bookworms. Looking back, they can't remember learning to read and I suspect they can't remember how they learned to read music!

Our school doesn't start children before 7. I guess they pick it up quicker a little older and aren't put off by enforced practicing.

Is it like writing and reading, as in you do lots of fine motor skill activities, read lots of stories but no point actually sitting them at a desk forcing them to write at a young age. Similarly isn't lots of live music, hearing music etc the main thing at infant age? We went to a lovely music group which focused on recognising beat, touching instruments, clapping time, different styles of music rather than formal instruction.

My dd started violin just before she was 6 when she asked to. She is motivated and enjoys practicing. Not how intrinsically musical she is but she works hard. Her brother is 5 and very keen to start violin too. I shall be interested to see how that goes as he is more musical but much more immature and has less of a work ethic ! Her other brother has no interest at all in learning an instrument formally but is likes to pick out tunes on the piano and loves African drumming at school. We shall see how it all turns out !!

My DM was a piano teacher, and generally recommended that children started at about age 7 or later. She occasionally took a particularly keen 5 or 6 year old, but that was rare

It probably helps to start early if you are going to be a concert pianist, but vanishingly few pianists will reach this standard. For anyone else, starting later isn't necessarily an obstacle to becoming a competent pianist.

DD16 started two and a bit years ago and just passed the French equivalent of grade 8 ... And her teacher's current best student is another 16 year old who started piano 3 years ago and just passed a diploma-level exam with top marks.

Wow stage 8 in two years is amazing. You must be proud!!

And think of all the years of music lessons you've saved!!

My DD started the
piano at 4 yrs
Violin at 6 yrs
Double bass at 9 yrs

She is now 11 and loves playing them all. She's grade 5 on each of them/