September Music and Musicians Thread

[Wafflenose]

Hello to all musicians and parents of musicians, both old and new, beginners and advanced! Feel free to share whatever you like, and ask away about anything to do with music, exams, concerts, repertoire, practice, etc.

We are all heading back to school and work this coming Monday. My daughters Goo (10) and Rara (8) will be going into Year 6 and Year 4 respectively. Goo plays the recorder, flute and piano (just took up piano in April) and I have slapped a ban on exams for about a year - she has been doing too many. Rara plays the recorder and cello, and will be doing whole class brass lessons during Year 4. She's taking Grade 3 Recorder this term, and is about two-thirds of the way through the Grade 1 Theory book, doing it in her own sweet time and bloody annoying unique way. Goo's main project will be NCO and county auditions... not that she's busting a gut currently!

I can't sit with dd for anything - she gets into a huge strop as soon as I walk in the door!!! So I leave her to it...not the best practice but everyone is calmer!!!

Petra, I wish it will be one day when I dont have to do it(it might never happen as I am much of a control(freak)). I have someone now rushing through school homework so she can go to her first rehearsal later on, we havent touched the violin since the lesson on thursday and the piano since Tuesday, we will try to do better from next week!!!

We are lucky, but we didn't end up living here by accident. The school was one of (quite a few) considerations when we bought our first house in 2003/2004. We hadn't yet had children, but I'd taught a few children who'd been through the school, and one invited me to his end of Year 11 concert. I fell in love with it. We looked at quite a few houses, but I was really pleased when this purchase went through. Off the top of my head, I think they run these each week: Junior Boys' Choir, Junior Girls' Choir, SATB Choir (year 10/11), Swing Band, Junior Wind Band, Steel Band, Junior Steel Band, Percussion Group, Clarinet Group, String Group, Brass Band, Music Technology Club... there might be others.

When DS started in Y7 school had Big Band, subsequently renamed as it wasn't big to start with. That folded when he was in Y8 leaving choir as the only musical activity. Fortunately we have never been reliant on school to provide playing opportunities.

When we looked around secondary schools music provision wasn't high on our list, if it had then we would have made the effort to get into the one over the border that has a big enough music department to support A level. Then he would have lost contact with his peri teacher that inspired him in Y4 so maybe it was all for the best.

Best of luck with the transition Waffle, looking back I worried so much and it was for no good reason.

There are few playing opportunities in schools here. There are no ensembles, orchestras or choirs.
What we do have though is an amazing LA music service which encourage all players to join a county group, which include all levels from beginners to advanced.
Because there are so few who want to do music and Primary especially can't cater for lessons in school, the high schools double as music service provision in the evenings.
So the county have junior and senior choirs, individual ensembles for strings, wind, guitar, keyboard, brass, percussion etc. We also have an regular award winning Jazz orchestra.

This was one of the deciding factors in allowing dd to attend her school, we just have no alternatives for more than music service could offer.

Just listening to dd practice her wind band and Big Band parts with dh, she is on tenor with him playing Alto part, she is feeling superior , and keeps telling him she's more worthy to play it than him. I can see a challenge coming up that she won't be able to do, perhaps a strop or two.
I spent last night with her after she came home and started practising, I'm beginning to feel like it's a waste of time her coming home these days.

There are a lot of groups at DCs school, but we chose to go out of catchment and pay transport because of the provision. DD also turned down her grammar school place after selecting to sit 11+. (Just one superselective in our area).

Our catchment school's music has improved a lot over the last few years though.

We were approached by our local private school to consider sending DS2, it's actually our closest secondary, but we weren't interested.

When we visited our local comp on an open morning, I asked about music. They said, oh yes, music here is very important. The visit was over and we still hadn't been shown the music department. I again asked to meet someone from music dept. Funnily both head and assistant were unavailable so I was sent to see a PE tacher! Appparently he´s the one that schedules hall events so he knows about how many musical events in the year etc. After a small chat with PE guy (still hadn't been shown music rooms) he starts talking about concerts (very few) and how he's sometimes expected to attend but "luckily" manages not to. Then he laughs as if I'm going to understand his ordeal. I was speechelss. Then DS was offered a place at a super desirable comp in another borough that offers music places after he passed their music aptitude test. We went to visit and timpani were missing wheels, they had no marimba, their cymbals looked like they'd just been kissed by Hulk, the whole percussion section was so sad. It was heart breaking. OK if all you have to bring is your violin, but not the case. He's currently part of 7 different ensembles in school with access to all kinds of percussion, something impossible to imagine in any of the state schools we visited....

In terms of keeping up stuff whilst preparing for 11plus, we couldn't stop music because he was applying for music scholarships, like miniEalingwest and miniPrada! That meant preparing a very tight weekly schedule that included both music and 11plus preparation. Luckily DS kept to it like a monk and everything worked out OK. It's just not necessary to stop everything, and not good for the children.

nwbmum welcome. I second what others have said. DS started piano at same age, 4. I never sat with him but I sat in the room, listening. He did about 15 min a day at the beginning. His teacher was DH and even he didn't sit with him, because he wanted him to practice independently. But of course if DS had a question or doubt, his teacher was at hand and the practice would become an improvised lesson, which was useful! Morning practice never worked for us. It was afternoons after school and a snack. Now it's whenever homework allows it

I have someone who was a little overwhelmed with the first rehearsal today and said she couldnt catch up with 1 note...however this is the good sign because I could see she is being motivated to learn and catch up from her friend.

Gillybeanz

Music scholarship: I have a fainted monent when I thought why not try, however after the rehearsal today and what my daughter said about her friends there then I think we are good, we should not think about it

Regarding to moving: I thought of moving, my problems are: I need to live close to a good primary because I have a 2 yrs old who will join the pupil force in 2 yrs then it must near a good train/tube line because very likely we will have to work another 25 yrs. Its very hard to have everything and after joining mumsnet I realised, getiing a place at a great secondary is only a starting point.

Ok, one by one, we had a very busy week last week with playdates, dinners out at friends both Sat and Sun, the new school year routine should start from tomorrow for us which means: 15 mins piano in the morning. On amy afternoon when there isnt a plan/activity then 30 mins piano. I will sit down with her for violin 30 mins every evening except a swimming one. We aim to know all the 3 g5 pieces by mid Oct and hopefully having 2-3 weeks to work on details. For violin our new teacher mentioned on a correct positions fingerings etc, so we will work on that.

Phew, thats my solution, now its bed time

The schools in our area have a number of places allocated on music, not many but it is worth trying, so DD will give those a go also. The only thing that worries me now is that her best friend is also doing piano and if only one of the girls will pass the MAT and is invited to audition the other will get upset. I need to see how I manage expectations closer to the time.

drummersmum your experience is quite sad regarding the music department in the school you visited. We are going to visit the school in our area in the next couple of months and music department is high up on our list. I presume that as they offer music places they will have an impressive music department but I'll have to see.

drummersmum your experience doesn't surprise me at all. Actually, when we were looking at schools I was more bothered by art provision at the time and so was DS1. The art department is fab, there's no denying it! At the time his school's music provision seemed to be mostly music tech and some guitar and drum lessons. There was a general feeling that the boys wouldn't be interested in orchestral music. Music provision at the school is getting better - new staff came in - and there are a few bands and a nice choir. The Christmas concert is lovely but this last summer there was no end of year concert even though they had one the previous year that went really well. No explanation as to why.
However, the tiny primary school did something quite clever. It brought in a very experienced teacher from the local music service to form a school orchestra. It cost a small amount each term per child to pay for her. It's something the secondary school could do,with more experienced students and parents would love it. And the PTA could stump up for a few more instruments! So my plan if the school band doesn't get moving soon is to suggest that. After all, to my knowledge they now have five cellists! That's never happened before in the history of the school, I imagine!

loose it looks like things are really looking up in the school then. Five cellists! Good luck with your plans with the band.

gillybeanz I understand how you feel but it's not a waste of time to see her parents every weekend (and make music with her father!). Her emotional development is as important as her musical one. Specially if she's going to be a musician, I have met many performers through my work and there are so many insecurities, pressures, etc that the stronger their emotional core is, the better they will survive the experience. That strenght always always comes from the family and childhood. That's of course my humble opinion, that a few hours with mum and dad are as if not more important than a few more hours practice. She's still so young.

drummers yes, I was a bit stunned! The cello teacher may have got it wrong but still...! Not sure they will go for the paid orchestra leader idea but I'm hopeful there will be an opportunity to suggest it. Of course, there's still the problem of getting the boys to turn up for rehearsals, which drives DS1 mad already! (He doesn't see the lure of football or rugby!)

12th piano lesson today (although Goo has been playing for 5 months) and she has been given a piece which used to be set for Grade 4 (Burgmuller op. 100, Ballade). SURELY that can't be right? She has risen to every challege so far, but in sight reading and scales is still chugging through Grade 2. Do you think the teacher is pushing her to find out where she is going to get stuck?

Maybe waffle, but it's worth finding out. What if she doesn't get stuck...?

I fear that she is going to end up with gaps and technical difficulties...

Oh, I am so behind in reading everyone's news....
However, Waffle, from my (sad) experience, some teachers just think that technique=fingering. Nothing else if taught. Which means - doesn't matter if Goo plays grade 5 or grade 2 level-technical side will not be taught. Hope it is not the her case.... however, she is already given grade 5 piece but not given the technique, right? Or perhaps she was shown technical side already-then you have nothing to worry about.... In any event - her progress is amazing, but the rest can be taught.

As usual-I am reflecting on practicing
There are days when dd is quite focused (with a bit pf bribing :)) and does not mind practicing for quite a long time which is mostly repetition and repetition nowadays (to make fingers running fast). And it does make difference. Music flows more naturally and concentration on details improves too. Which makes me think that pushy parents do have their point... Of course, where extended practicing does not make too much difference it is not worth it, but where it does?....

Thanks for your perspective! Goo has about 30 minutes of warm ups and scales to do before pieces, so more technical work than anything else. She has dozen a day, Czerny and some written by her teacher, all the white note major and minor scales and arpeggios - 2 octaves hands separately and 1 octave together. Do those sound like the right sorts of things? She does 40-90 minutes a day. Teacher is amazing and has a long waiting list, taught at Wells for many years and has had pupils in the BBC Young Musician semis. So I know she is fab, but am worried about what Goo must have missed out! Maybe it's just being a mum... there's always something to worry about.

I don't think Goo will nail this latest piece for the foreseeable future anyway!

Waffle do you get to see the lessons at all? I believe what only means is the technique such as when to jump around the piano and when to stretch, when to lift your elbow and when to keep it steady, when can you use flat fingers to reach notes, when to put your whole body behind playing, how to swing the melody from right hand to left hand and have the right tone balance between the two hands. Then building speed and all the fingering necessary.

From what you say though she sounds like a teacher that deserves your trust so why not letting her take charge and see what happens?

DD does Czerny also, she loves it sometimes and hates it other times, depending on what the teacher wants out of one exercise. Which Czerny is Goo using?

All sorts of Czerny, but mostly the little pieces in a book called "Hello Mr Gillock! Carl Czerny!" I was going to share a video actually, but it's two months old and she's so much better now. I'll ask her to play one of them so I can show it to you, and also Valse Noble, which she likes.

I don't watch because I am teaching at Goo's school while she is having the lesson at my school! The first opportunity I get is going to be during one of the school holidays, if she has a lesson then.

I think it is worth trusting the teacher, ultimately what could happen? She sounds like a very experienced teacher from what you are saying and Goo is putting in the work so maybe the teacher is pushing to see when will Goo reach the right level, when will she stop progressing as fast and establish the right pace if you see what I mean.

Thanks, Fleur! She did say at the beginning that Goo would end up at the same level that she would have, had she not given up (six months of self-teaching with light supervision from me in Year 1 - she was heading towards Grade 1 after six months) and I thought, "Nonsense! - a grade every 12-18 months might have put her at Grade 5 by the end of primary, there's no way!" But Goo loves it so much, the teacher might be righ... I'm not bothered - I want her to keep having fun and improving, and we have requested no exams.

Incidentally, I asked the teacher to take her on when she was 7, but she wasn't doing any private teaching at the time. We got talking again in the spring, she had since heard much more about Goo and had a space, and the rest is history. We're so pleased!

Waffle we used to be anti-rushing. Mostly because that's the way DH thought, and so he taught DS in a very secure and moderate pace. We used to go to concerts and see little kids struggling with pieces that were too difficult for them and DH used to say, he/she's not ready for that piece, etc. But in some cases, we have seen the evolution of these kids and I must say they ended up playing quite well and very advanced after a few years, in fact more advanced than DS at the same age. So now I am not so sure anymore!! Is it because they were always challenged beyond what they could do? It's not clear. Of course there are limits but it would be a bad teacher that crosses those limits and sets your daughter an impossible piece. And it sounds like your teacher is very experienced. All the things Fleur mentions, she's so right about everything. But maybe the teacher thinks Goo can slowly master them because she's attempting a g4 piece... Like the piece demands it, therefore the child applies herself and technique suddenly has a raison d'etre beyond just excercises. Just some thoughts.

That makes so much sense, drummersmum. Like your DH, I have always disliked seeing kids pushed beyond what they can safely do, and for auditions and competitions, my mantra (and Goo's) has always been to play something a grade lower, but play it like you are a grade higher than you are! Anyway, I will let you all know how it goes... she hasn't started the piece yet, and HATES the first few days of learning it. Once she has it figured out (which the teacher expects her to do entirely on her own), it's completely memorised, and that's when the teacher steps in and tells her how she wants it. This piece could take some months! Tee hee.