Spring/ Summer Music and Musicians Thread

[Wafflenose]

My children go back to school tomorrow, and it's my birthday this week, so it must be properly spring in the UK now, and time for a new thread! Please jump right in by telling us about your DCs' learning (or your own), or by asking any music/ music exam related questions you like. We have lots of experienced music parents and teachers on here, as well as lots of new ones.

I am a music teacher, and mum to Goo (10) and Rara (7). Goo started the recorder and flute when she was tiny (age 3 and 6 respectively), has recently added piccolo, but not very well yet, and is starting piano lessons in a couple of weeks. She has no exams this term, but will probably do Grade 6 Flute in the Autumn and Grade 8 Recorder next Spring. She plays in her school orchestra and recorder groups, South West Music School and NCO, and has her first concert with County Wind Band tonight, after a trial course. She hasn't auditioned to become a member yet, and might not for a few years yet, due to age and time factors.

Rara isn't so musically inclined - she prefers to read and draw, and is also very physically active. However, she is due to take her Grade 2 Cello exam this term, and Grade 3 Recorder in the Autumn - she's currently getting to grips with the treble and loving it!

We were expecting a smaller instrument (more accustomed to scaled string instruments) but the teacher was confident she would manage a bb. She has reached section 11 of Paul Harris only skipping a couple of pieces. She also enjoys treble recorder and again can reach most notes.

Well done on all the great results!

Musicmom you are not the only one still waiting! DD has at least another month to wait for a diploma result. It is a tortuous process - well, for me anyway, a week of NCO has taken her mind off it completely I think. I am hoping now the actual exam and the NCO excitement is over she will get on with some work on her other instruments!!

hello all. Think this thread is a bit early for me, but would like to ask for advice / ideas on the early years.

DD is nearly three. She's showing plenty of signs of being musical and interested in music, we sing lots (though increasingly she tells me to stop so she can do it on her own), she could sing whole songs correctly very young (18 months) her nursery were staggered.

We've got xylophone etc knocking around, I noticed she very carefully picked out a scale on one recently (so yes just playing each bar in turn, but with a spontaneous concentration, and intent to follow the pattern of the sound).

We've got a piano (which I still play, though would like some refresher lessons myself after a 15 year gap), and she sometime does that on there too, although she also just likes bashing around.

I loved music as a child, started piano lessons at five and loved it, had private piano lessons until 18, did violin for bit later (though I didn't love it as much as piano). Also singing, though as I grew up I lost my confidence and only performed as part of choirs, I had a horror or auditions and solo performances.

I'd like to nurture DD's obvious musicality without overdoing it (the joy is the point, for me). At the same time, looking back, I really appreciate that I started formal learning so young, it meant I got the basics down early and already at 7 or 8 could play quite accomplished pieces which was very satisfying, and gave me something to build on. At the same time, being singled out for my music skill at school, combined with bullying issues and a couple of private teachers who made bad calls (one entered me in an exam under prepared, the next epistomised the 'don't fail and damage my reputation' critical attitude) destroyed my confidence and joy in performing, and playing and singing have become private things for me. I regret that.

Questions:

• what sort of age would you start formal lessons?
• what approach would you take to finding a good teacher? things to look for, questions to ask?
• what would you do before then? games / exercises /group recommendations?
• I looked at a Suzuki group that runs nearby, I like the philosophy but it does seem very all-encompassing - is it violin only?

I will be back later to answer the rest of your questions, but your DD sounds lovely. I have never actually met a child who isn't musical - often the parents think they're not, but it isn't true. I think anyone with sufficient interest can be taught to play the right instrument for them, with correct and appropriate teaching. Havin said that, a few children are exceptional. For now, I'd get her into a parent and child singing/ music making class, and carry on singing to her and making instruments available. I don't take formal pupils before 5/6, and prefer pianists to be 7/8 but that is personal preference - within a few months of a child starting at this age, they will have caught up with most of those who started at 5. I recommend recorder, xylophone or ukulele as a good starting point.

Suzuki do other instruments, such as cello, piano, flute, and I'm not sure what else. I'm no expert, but other people with experience will come along soon. I teach them to read music from the start (so from age 5) and they all can!

I don't think my son showed any musical signs at three other than he could sing a song back perfectly after hearing it once. He can't remember learning to play his instrument and he started at seven and a half.

I would like to offer up this week's excuse for my lack of dusting. I've just added it up and Sunday to Sunday I will be driving 390 miles this week ferrying DS to musical things. I cannot wait for him to be old enough to drive himself so I can give him the petrol money and reclaim a day's time (I make it twelve hours behind the wheel). I will have spent more on petrol this week than lesson/workshop fees.

My DD showed no signs of being musical until she was 11 . She's not technically brilliant but I'd say she is pretty musical in the sense of having a very good ear, and being able to play by ear/ improvise completely naturally

I think the right teaching approach depends on age, personality and instrument. There is probably some benefit to starting young if the emphasis is on musicianship and enjoyment, rather than reading music and making rapid technical progress. My experience has been that a later start results in much faster progress.

Dd started suzuki cello at 6; many started at 4 or 5. We started then for lots and lots of health reasons (hearing; severe muscle weakness etc etc) and it was the right thing for DD for those reasons But I completely agree that later starters often progress faster. Plus we hit a real sight reading cliff edge as it was 'pure' Suzuki for the first few years. Otherwise I am complete Suzuki fan for what it gave DD/us as a family.

We did mom and toddler music things before and they were also excellent fun.

Dd didn't show any great additional prowess until around 8 and even now it comes and goes!

Icould: that much of driving? I dont think I could do it to be honest. You have my admiration.
Fleur: great you have everything plan, I hope minifleur will enjoy it and progress well.
Everyone else: great exam results, I read someone had grade 5 violin done sometime ago before the child was 8. Your child is a star. Mine is still playing out of tune. She was playing "american" in grade 3 violin last night and I had to(pretend) ask her to try on the scale instead. Vibrato technique came in for grade 3 and she hasnt got it right yet.

Good news: she is joining the school Orchestra, starting next week. Only 30mins a week so hopefully she still has plenty play time. She loves learning foreign terms after I told her that it was her weakness(thanks How, we found them in the little hand book and she said that book is much easier to read than the AB guide). She asked me to check them last night and she got 80-90% of them right up until grade 3( there are hundreds already). Poor girl who doesnt have a mother like mini Prada she fold the A4 white paper in half, wrote one side in English and the other side foreign term and learnt them that way. Her determination and love of learning always surprise me. I dont care if she fails or passes, I am sure she is trying.

To Dougal: start early to have fun is great, no point to do grade too early though it might kill all the fun bits

My FIL drove me bonkers to send DD to piano lessons since she was about 4. He is a musician and made (good) money all his life out of music and kept telling me she is talented. I couldn't see anything but then he was right in terms of the fact that she always sang, on and on and in tune. Since she was a baby my FIL would sing to her and since she was around 2 they'd sing together. I guess that helped developing her ear for music.

Now I can see some musicality but also hard work so not sure which one is it mostly.

Oh, her piano teacher (unrelated to FIL, they don't know each other) saw something in her also and says she has got that something needed in music, musical ear and talent. I guess I'll take their word for it.

When she was younger my dd could play her first instrument (recorder) quite competently, but honestly there was absolutely nothing about her playing that stood out. I remember there being an older boy (about 10 or 11) who studied with the same teacher and he was absolutely jaw-droppingly good - technically brilliant, of course, but much much more than that. My DD was absolutely nothing like that. She also couldn't sing particularly well!

DD is very lucky with musical terminology - she is trilingual + did several years of Latin at school, so it's rare for her to come across a foreign language term that she can't work out. It must be much harder to learn the words in isolation.

Dd went to the normal toddler music groups then a music group at a centre where they used the Kodály method
At 5 she started with a recorder and then clarinet at 7
I'm trying to think if there were early signs of being musical. I can't think of anything other than she just liked rhyming and music and singing... So we carried on with groups.She also liked / likes counting and numbers and patterns . Music covered all of that I guess.

I am addicted to this thread!
My daughter has no sign of being musical, she just loves listening to music. She doesnt love singing and not in tune all the times. However I took away what Waffle meant was as long as the child is willing to learn and practise then they can play. My principle is if you do anything, do it with full heart( even being an armateur however try with your full heart). Well, thats the moto, in practise, there are alot of bumps.
To anyone who has children play violin above grade 3, please can you let me know how your child is doing with vibrato. My daughter finds it very hard

Hi Green, our teacher only showed miniprada vibrato after G3 (she only took her on just a couple of months before) and believes vibrato is only really expected G5 and above. She thought her technique was really good straight away so as a result of encouragement Mini has taken to it really well. As advice, her violin teacher told her to practice the technique even when not practising I.e sitting at a desk etc to get used to the feeling. Maybe try that?

Green my dd is grade 3 and is not doing vibrato

DD Dec wasn't expected to do vibrato until post grade 5; it took ages for her to get it it's still a work in progress

Cello update - just swapped the little cello for a 3/4 at the music centre and it's a Stentor II so DS2 is going to be very pleased! I spent the bus ride home really hoping people thought I could play it!
Fleur it all sounds very exciting about the clarinet lessons! I think DD is going to love being able to play in ensembles.
I'm not sure if either DS showed early talent for music and they certainly didn't knock themselves out to practise, but they certainly both enjoyed dancing as toddlers. Sadly, neither could be persuaded to go to ballet classes! They both have a very good sense of rhythm, though.

Thanks everyone, so its not a must to get vibrato done to be able to pass the test and progress, phew!!! We will still carry on trying, its hard, hopefully she will get it right oneday. I also realised her finger muscle isnt strong enough to perform vibrator for very long note, its hard to press the string and move finger without lifting it for a break

DS (9) grade 2 cello and grade 1 horn has just started singing with a view to trying out for the Wakehurst Scholar programme at St Olaves. His voice is coming along very nicely but he really could do with more practice singing in a choir aside from the usual school offering. Nothing really around here but I notice that the RSCM has a junior summer course. I used to love music summer courses as a kid but wondered whether anyone has experience of this course and whether it would be way too advanced for a non-chorister

I am addicted to this thread also.

Loose this is the main reason to encourage DD to take on clarinet, to play in ensembles so music can become more sociable for her.

DD is doing really well with fur Elise her teacher asked her to play the first few bars hands separate but she decided to go on and learnt almost the first full page hands separate and she was already trying to put the first few bars hands together last night. She loves it so much and so do I, I can see why she cannot wait to play it all.

Fleur your DD is an inspiration. I more or less gave up learning piano after the older DDs got a teacher and I had DD3. I bought myself a compilation including Moonlight Sonata after watching too much Mapp and Lucia. It was too hard given my limited time and patience atm. I am now happily progressing with Fur Elise although I suspect your DD will perfect it long before me.

(My big book compilation was about £10 from Amazon and DD1 and her teacher are also dipping into it atm for post exam relief as it has loads of popular repertoire from about grade 5 -8 and beyond)

Green just a note on vibrato. A good reason not to work on it too early is that it leads to fudging rather than perfecting tuning. It is also very difficult with young flexible fingers and starts to develop naturally with time and maturity and confidence. Grade 5 syllabus notes talk about looking for it starting to be introduced.

Musicmom: all the best on the 11+, it must be double hardship for carrying on with music lessons/exams on top of it.

My daughter is only in year 3 and I already feel the heat( we live in South west London). In fact I only started looking at mumsnet when I research about 11+. For us we will go to private route, there are many very good girls private secondary schools in the area however the entrance is very tough. My daughter goes to state primary and they dont prepare her for the exam. I found couple of tutors however the waiting list is crazy. To make the matter worse even my friends dont share the info/experience regarding to 11+ they have(living in different area and not competing to each other. They dont tell us what they are actually doing even lying about it even for anything else they are no doubt very good friends). Both of us working long hours in the city and she is our first child so I feel she doesnt have the best support she needs. The situation is slightly out of our hands now however I hope we still have time. For now I only encourage her to read, I set a budget to top up our bookshelf every week, sucsribe to children news papers. Her birthday presents was 25 hard cover classic books for an example. I still keep my eyes and ears open regarding to find a tutor, what to expect etc. The fine line here is how much is enough. How to not overdo it and prolong her play time and/or childhood. I am worried chosing not to do anything else now might not prove a right decision.

Howabout I love Mapp and Lucia, so much that I got myself all the books on Kindle and read them all, I find the constant references to Moonlight sonata so amusing.

Moonlight sonata seems to be around grade 6-7 at least that is what I found on Google so not looking at it just yet.

Not sure how quick DD will perfect Fur Elise as the part in the middle/second part seems quite hard and her teacher told her that she won't fall into the trap of only teaching her the first movement to show off, If she wants to learn it she'll have to learn all of it. Also I think there is some maturity required to play it, which at the age of 8 may be lacking but I hope she'll do a good job of it and keep it in her repertoire constantly improving it as she gets older.

We got the Urtex edition of fur Elise, also the Grieg's lyric pieces op 12, hopefully she'll like those also.