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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

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Original poster

ASA learn to swim framework in regards to criteria to progress through stages

43 replies

bhaile · 03/07/2015 00:12

Hi,
My daughter who is going to be 4 years old in August has been taking swimming lesson at Edmonton green, Enfield, since she was 6 month old. She is now in ducking 2.
Last week however her teacher told us that she is very good at swimming and therefore should go to level 1 and was awarded her red hat.

As you can imagine, we were all celebrated her success and encouraged/ congratulated her enormously. However, when we took her to her class a week later, we were told by the managers there that until she is 5 years old, she has to remain at ducking 2. Adding to that, they said they are following ASA guidance.

We were very disappointed. Even more so, my daughter left confused. It is very hard to explain to 4 years old why she can't join the other groups. After all, we were advised by her teacher that she is joining the stage 1 groups in front of her.

Thus, I decided to contact ASA directly and hear it from them as there parent's guide booklet doesn't mention age anywhere. Therefore, I rang there office this morning and was advised that it's by ability that children progress though stages and not by age.

However, her swim school are adamant that she should stay in duckling 2 group because of her age.
I'm confused and don't know what to tell my daughter. Can any one advise please?

thanks
beth

OP posts:

futureme · 05/07/2015 22:22

Ah I knew our pool had added to the ASAP requiremens but maybe not by how much! To pass stage 4 ours have to have good technique in all strokes, reasonable breathing and do spend the lessons swimming 20m lengths in various strokes, focusing on different aspects. We don't have 4 year old in our stage 4 as they'd be swimming lengths of the big pool in all strokes. Im sure some can, I've just not seen it locally.

futureme · 05/07/2015 22:22

AS A not ASAP

KenDoddsDadsDog · 05/07/2015 22:25

DD is at Virgin Active but just because class times are better than the council run ones which are excellent . Not Fusion run.

KenDoddsDadsDog · 05/07/2015 22:35

Stage 4 ASA is 10m in all strokes , not using breathing so your classes have definitely added to it . DD did her 200m in breast and backstroke . Stage 5 is a lot more difficult for her inc tumbling and sculling . I can't remember being taught in the same way when I was small, there's a lot more variety these days.

drinkscabinet · 05/07/2015 22:46

There's no age requirement from ASA, our local pool starts them from 3, DD1 started a week after her third birthday and was moved to level 1 after 2 blocks of lessons of the beginners stage (don't think they called it Duckings then) so she would have been 3.5 at that point and then moved up to level 2 before she turned 4, would have been level 3 and 4 when she was 4 then after getting stuck on level 5 for a long time made it to level 5 when she was 5. I think at this early stage it's as much about paying attention in the lessons and being able to follow instructions rather than any natural aptitude, my BIL is a swimming coach and says you can't identify those with real potential until secondary school. His own son only started really showing his talent in the last year or so and he's now 14. And that's with genetic advantages, supportive family (he's the third generation of swimmers) and years of training.

futureme · 05/07/2015 22:49

We have "swim 10m in all strokes showing a breathingpattern," as one of the targets for stage 4, but from stage 4 they are swimming lengths of a 20m pool though so are often in stage 3 a bit longer until they are ready to do that. The other pool is similar in length but no idea about requirements.

They already can swim the 10m pool on front, back and breaststroke in some fashiom to get into the class.

I didn't realise how different they all were.

futureme · 05/07/2015 22:53

Wow really drinks! Some of these kids sound amazing. Is it just a case of "getting it" early like reading then?

I've got no desire for mine to be a competitive swimmer but I'd certainly my love both mine to progress off the levels quickly and easily!

KenDoddsDadsDog · 05/07/2015 22:55

ASA is really clear so straightforward for most clubs to follow , do they get ASA badges or something else then ? One of DDs friends just did 600m but still in stage 4 as she can't master butterfly. Age doesn't come into it , a real mix in the groups.

SquirrelledAway · 06/07/2015 09:55

The ASA stage outcomes and skill sheets are quite clear, it's a matter of how the teacher / swim school interprets it - we've had numerous children join our swim school that have allegedly completed all the ASA or SASA stages and want to swim competitively but can't swim anything that even looks vaguely like breaststroke. I do think some places put pressure on teachers to move children up before they're ready to make it look like they are progressing and that parents are getting value for money.

KenDoddsDadsDog · 06/07/2015 20:28

Pointless if they can't do the things . Think I would be forever left in stage 4 !

QueenofLouisiana · 06/07/2015 21:18

futreme I'm not sure that competitive swimmers necessary "get it" early- DS couldn't swim a length until about 7 1/2- then swam 3000m at 8.

He's still perfecting some technical aspects of competitive swimming. However he loves it, loves competing, loves his coaches....it's all good! (Except the training times- obviously!)

futureme · 06/07/2015 21:58

Wow that's a huge leap in 6 months! I've considered delaying my second child starting lessons in case it's all a bit wasted and instead of years of lessons she could learn quicker, older. However I think she'd enjoy them anyway...

drinkscabinet · 06/07/2015 23:35

Is it just a case of "getting it" early like reading then?

I think at the early stages it is just a case of getting it early. DD1 is a good personality for learning, she listens and is good at trying things and tends to do well at things early but then other kids catch up.

I've considered delaying my second child starting lessons in case it's all a bit wasted and instead of years of lessons she could learn quicker, older. However I think she'd enjoy them anyway...

Our view was always to get them used to swimming as a regular part of their life rather than to worry about the stages they were at (since it's one of the few exercises that people of all ages do, it's such a life skill). DD1 was stuck at stage 4 for ages, her teacher was rubbish. But she still enjoyed the classes so we didn't bother moving her to another time/teacher. My nephews started lessons at 5 (different part of the country) and progressed much quicker. Again, a bit like reading. Some kids are ready early and will do fine learning to read at 3/4, others do much better if its delayed until 7.

Mopmay · 16/07/2015 14:30

My DD was in level 2 at 4.5 and now in level 3 at 5 1/4 Our centre ignore age it seems. My 3.5 year old is in level 1

LurcioAgain · 16/07/2015 14:44

"Wow that's a huge leap in 6 months! I've considered delaying my second child starting lessons in case it's all a bit wasted and instead of years of lessons she could learn quicker, older. However I think she'd enjoy them anyway..."

That's very much the approach I've taken with DS (based on his temperament, not saying this is a good idea across the board). I waited till he showed an interest (realised he was missing out on things like days out sailing) and was "teachable" (he wouldn't have paid attention/done what the teacher told him at age 4). He's 7 and I seem (more by luck than judgement) to have hit the window perfectly - he's gone from not able to swim at all to 10m in the deep end in a mere 8 lessons.

ReallyTired · 19/07/2015 22:56

The duck in awards cannot really be compared to the stages. Pre school children need a more play based approach to learning. Pre schoolers like lots of badges. I feel the mistake was to make a great fuss about getting duckling 2

www.swimming.org/asa/teaching-and-coaching/foundation/the-duckling-awards/8103/

If you look at the criteria, it's really a non achievement. Many children of your daughters age are capable of duckling 2 without swimming lessons. The duckling scheme understands that little people like badges. Seperating from mummy is an achievement for some children, but it is not really a swimming achievement.

Duckling 5 is the same standard as completing stage 1. A child who has completed duckling 5 should be ready for a stage 2 class. Having all duckling children in one class is the same spread of ability as a stage 1 class. The difference is that bigger children tend to learn faster and don't need the encouragement of so many badges.

ReallyTired · 19/07/2015 22:58

Young children lack the power of older kids. The sports centre know what they are doing, but I can understand why your daughter feels confused and disappointed.

Madcats · 20/07/2015 18:06

We'd done some baby swimming and we started swimming lessons just before DD's 4th birthday.

I am that sad parent who has a folder full of DD's certificates (now 8, but it all looks pretty similar). I can see she passed ASA stage 1 at 4, stage 2 age 4 1/2. Stage 3 she had just turned 5.

She took a while to get from 4 - 6 as the swim school teacher was very fussy about technique (with hindsight this was a good thing as she has found the progression thereafter easy). In the interim they gave her a few stroke/distance awards.

I think some kids genuinely find it fun and easy. Others really struggle with breathing and strokes. The thing is that it has to stay fun.

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