Piano Lessons - will no music knowledge for parent

[maakaa]

Hi my DS is attending piano classes for a year now. I have no music knowledge. The time we spend with the teacher is more about correcting mistakes. The teacher expects my DS to learn a song all on his own(hew has to write the notes and learn to play at home) and then the class is mostly for correction.

I've to check the songs in youtube, see how they are played and help DS, obviously with struggling at it. Is this how its taught normally?

I introduce the new idea for the lesson, if there is one, but I expect the student to read the music. I don't usually teach note by note or monkey-see-monkey-do. If they need help on a passage, I will then go over it slowly, demonstrating. The following week, or for a piece we've been working on longer, or a more advanced student... Yes, there will be a lot of correcting. Much of the work on a piece is done at home and I don't like lessons that are little more than supervised practise -it's a waste of everyone's time and parents' money. In the lesson, we might focus in on what needs practising! find the loud/soft markings, home in on a part where the hand moves, etc.

maakaa - I am tone deaf and have no musical knowledge at all, my DS started quite young on piano. At the beginning, I was as frustrated as you, but soon DS's sight reading is good enough to learn without too much help. Below are what we did at early stage of his piano learning:

1. using flash cards/apps to improving sight reading
2. using you tube to help -- it is not the best approach but as a non-musical parent, I found it useful. And once DS's level advanced, he needs youtube much less.
3. taking notes/videos of what teacher said in the lesson. It is really only the first week of learning a new piece that you need to learn note by note on your own, then most of the weeks, you just need to follow what the teacher said in the lesson.

Anyway, my way may not be the best, just hope it may help somehow.

I don't think you have said what age or Year group DS is?

Is this a private teacher, and individual lessons; or is it at school, and in a group lesson?

How long is each lesson with the teacher?

Is it a 'real' acoustic piano you have at home, or an electronic instrument?

You say he 'has to write the notes and learn to play at home'. If you mean he writes the letter (c d e f g a b) for each note, that should NOT be necessary, and certainly not if he has really been learning for a year!

I don't mean to be rude, and I am always keen to encourage children to learn music, but to me this does seem to be a very strange way to teach piano. If you can clarify the questions I have asked, I will try to add more constructive help.

You say you have no music knowledge, but these days there is such a lot of advice on-line, and in fairly inexpensive tutor and theory books, that, if you have any spare time, it should not be impossible for you to understand what DS is doing, and perhaps even to learn to play a little bit yourself.

I deliberately choose materials for my youngest students that come with a parent guide, flash cards etc.

Thanks all for your input.

My DS is in Year 2, goes to an individual tutor 30 min session a week. We have an electronic keyboard at the moment. His sight reading is all right, but, not upto the mark yet, we do use an app to practise, but he still takes time.

Looks like the first thing to improve is sight reading- more practise.

Yes, I could spend more time to help my DS, but, my Question was - is that how it should be? From your answers above, looks like I've to help a lot too..

When dd started music lessons, two instruments, both of her teachers required me to stay during the lesson, listen to what they were saying and make sure she does exactly what they asked. It is not the case now as I obviously cannot keep up with it. The first piano books are very simple to understand and I would suggest that a parent with no prior knowledge can go through the books quickly, figure out the basics and help their child. I would particularly pay attention to the dynamics (forte, piano) etc, and how to count the notes (semibreve, minim, etc)-this is what children very often neglect. I cannot help with the correct notes though, unless it is very obviously wrong and I can get it by ear.

Yes I do sit with DS during the lessons and take notes. As another poster had suggested, would try taking videos too.

Maakaa,

There is no way I would expect a year 2 to be practising without help from a parent. I make a point of using "At Home" books where parents have hints as to what questions to ask during practise sessions (there is literally a set of questions for each page of the piano book). But a year 2 will need you to sit there during the practise session, not just tell the child to go and practise. It is usual for MOST of the progress in playing to be made in these practise sessions at home, hence teachers always banging on about how important it is.

I recently had a child of that sort of age, albeit a beginner, come back after five weeks of not practising (over the Easter holidays and missed last lesson). We are practically back to square one in terms of technique, although the student has retained a fair bit of the information about where notes are etc. There are reasons why there wasn't much practise, but the point is simply that while lots of improvement could have happened in that period, the child has actually gone backwards. It's even more important in the early stages of learning.

You really don't need any musical background to help - can you hear whether a tune sounds the same as it is on the CD? Does that note sound wrong? Suggest concentrating on this part of the tune (which always goes wrong). Ask "Oh, there's an 'f' here, what does that mean?" (you don't even need to know, the child should know it means play loudly but won't think about it unless you ask the question). Things like that.

I am a non musical parent, dd (7 and in year 3) has been having lessons for a year and a half and passed grade 1 in March.

I sit in her lessons and listen to what her teacher is asking her to practice and I have done so from the beginning. The teacher explained to me what kind of help would be required at home and what I shouldn't do (for example never write the note names on the score to "help" as this is not helping).

Her lessons involve the following: teacher listening on previously assigned pieces and correcting mistakes. This could be rythm, fingering, tehnique.
She then moves on to the next piece or the next level, left hand if she only did right hand previously on current piece, hands together if she only did hands separately previously, polishing the piece in terms of soft, loud, crescendo, or new piece if current ones is up to a certain standard of achievement. Sometimes she will play it for her to explain what is left to polish it.

When she assigns a new piece she will go through it with dd by sight reading.

At home dd is practising every day as it is part of a routine and dd enjoys it. What I do is sit on a chair and remind her what the teacher asked her to do (count out loud, put hands together, play softly, practice a certain difficult bar a number of times etc).

What I noticed is that if I take a real interest in her playing she will progress faster than just expecting her to do it on her own.

I am trying to keep up with what she is learning (not by playing myself) and I am quite good at hearing a wrong note and helping her to figure out herself which is the right note by using the tools the teacher gave her.

In terms of sight reading I would be a bit concerned about writing the notes in. Dd's teacher made it clear that is a no-no as sight reading will not improve. Of course they need to learn the note names (dd's teacher used mnemonics for this) but sight reading is about up-up-down-2up-2down etc.

Piano teachers may correct me if I am wrong of course.

I'm a decent pianist so I help dd quite a bit. Not too much though - for example, I won't play the pieces for her at home. She figures it out. First reading can be a little tortuous (I have always been good at sightreading so get impatient...) but she gets there.

Her teacher writes in fingering - not excessively though - but doesn't write the note names.

I don't want to be overbearing so I am quite hands off despite my own abilities. She also plays the violin - which I don't - and I find it easier to support her with that, oddly.

Her piano teacher is fantastic at engaging her and has just introduced a different book with what dd calls 'proper' pieces.

If parents write in note names I will RUB IT OUT. Seriously. I try to avoid too many fingerlings, too.

Julie I learnt the hard way. After dd's first lesson I decided to write the few notes in to help dd. When we went to the second lesson the teacher literally shouted "who did this?" I felt like back in school as I whispered "meeee".

That is when I have been clearly told (in a nice way) what is help and what is too much interfering.

I felt quite proud when after the grade 1 exam the teacher said she had such a good result because we all work together well. It felt nice to be part of it all :)

Oh and dd's teacher does write the odd note and fingering in where she sees that a mistake may develop like dd playing the wrong note twice or the wrong fingering. Or she'll circle a flat or a sharp if again she keeps playing the natural in that bar.

But that is as much as she will allow.

It hacks me off that as a non musical parent my DD is at a disadvantage. I didn't realise how much help other children were getting from their musical parents. Now DD can properly read music she doesn't need so much help but I have really struggled to help her.

She's taking her first exam soon, and I suppose at least I know if she passes she has done it entirely on her own merit.

TheoreticalOrder - I don't think it is only in music a child needs support. As a TA I have worked with children whose parents can't READ, and therefore can't read with, or to the child, or share in the child's own written work. And I think that is an even greater disadvantage.

I'm sure we all wish your DD good luck in her exam, and that it be the first of many!

(And you can always come on here for support, help and encouragement.)

"fingering" - what does that mean?

TheoreticalOrder - I can understand you. In my case, I did start along with my DS, learning the notes etc, but, he progressed faster than me(may be because I don't practise on my own!) and struggle to keep up with him and correct his mistakes.

Yes'day we did the piece together again, line by line, I was watching one hand at a time, checking to make sure the notes were correct. Was easier that way for me, but DS was getting impatient, having to do the same line twice!!

maakaa it is the finger with which a certain note should be played with. Most of the times there will be some suggestions in the piece played, the number above the note.

TheoreticalOrder I would assume that it is quite hard to help/teach your own children if you are musical. Because either you may go against the teacher or your children may be reluctant to take advice from you. As I said I am non musical but trying to keep up with what the teacher is teaching dd, even so my dd would often shout at me if I ask her to do something that the teacher asked. Luckily the teacher writes in her note book also so I can present her with it to reinforce what she needs to practice.

I've noticed that children who do really well at music often have musical mothers (often piano teachers!) but I think encouragement and listening to them practice when they are small helps so much. I don't play cello so my job during DS2's practice is to sit there and read instructions from the practice book. Some of these are aimed at me - clap time, remind DS to lift elbow etc! Also to gently point out when it sounds wrong and tactfully suggest he checks (have to be a bit careful how I phrase that!) But I am really reliant on what the teacher writes in the book and on DS2's ability to translate that into playing technique.

I just feel very out of my depth with it - as I can't read music, and don't know about all the terminology eg dynamics etc. I know when a scale sounds wrong but that's about my limit!

I listen to her practice, I prod her to practice but I don't know if the rhythm is right etc. I can't correct her.

It's so very different from any extra curricular activity either of my children has done before. My son plays football at a very high level but I am unable to, and this hasn't hindered him in any way!

I so want her to continue with it though. She enjoys it, and seems to have a natural aptitude for it, which is wonderful, especially as she struggles somewhat academically.

TheoreticalOrder do you sit in her lessons? I found that sitting in lessons is really beneficial for me and I can help dd proactively if needed. In a year and a half I learnt to read music, I learnt the notes values, quavers, minims etc, I learnt scales and time signatures. First few months a tried to practice with my dd but of course she was going at a fast pace and I couldn't keep up after a while. That doesn't stop me though to keep learning the theory part of it, not sure how much longer I can keep up with it though as some things are already too much without the practice.

But at least I can sometimes count out loud with dd at the right tempo knowing the notes values when she is in a bad mood and wouldn't do it unless I join in.

Or remind her that space to space notes mean "2 up" rather than trying to figure out the note name.

And little things like that that I think make the difference between an invlolved parent and one taking a step back.

Good luck with your dd's exam!

Some good tips here - particularly about asking your child, the same day as the lesson, to explain to you what he/she needs to work on. This means that you are aware of it, and also checking that the child understands what should be improved. Doing it right after the lesson, it's fresh in their minds.

www.marthabeth.com/helping_kids_practice.html

TheoreticalOrder I am not a musical parent but I don't feel my children are disadvantaged because of it. Only in a way that I cannot play in front of them and set an example. I can help and control them without musical background and I influence them in other way-my car is full of classical CDs and taking into account how much driving we do during the day, they listen a lot!

Sadly I can't sit in the lessons as they are at school.