Summer Term Music, Musicians and Music Exams thread

[Wafflenose]

Hello again everyone! I know not everyone in the UK has gone back to school yet, and some of you are overseas, but term here starts today, so it's time for a new thread. Please post away about your children, your own musical studies or any questions about music exams/ learning an instrument generally. We have a helpful and experienced bunch of people here to answer queries or reassure you.

I have MiniWaffle, who is 9, and BabyWaffle who is 6. Mini has passed Grade 5 Recorder and Grade 4 Flute, and also plays some trumpet, piano and ukulele. Baby has passed Grade 1 Recorder and Initial Cello, and tinkers with the piano (when it's not in the repair shop...)

This term for exams, we have Grade 3 Theory (Mini) - as a warm-up for Grade 5 which will hopefully take place next year - and Grade 1 Cello (Baby). Both in June. I am doing Grade 2 Xylophone for the NCO Parents' Challenge! We have been challenged to learn an instrument unrelated to our proper ones, and I'm really a clarinettist.

Fleur my grade 3 pieces are Minuet, Stormy Coast and Jack is Sad. I like all of them but I think it's worth looking outside the ABRSM collection at the rest of the syllabus. Good luck to your DD!
I think she will be with a good digital piano but on your budget I am sure you could get a very good acoustic and I think DD's teacher is right about the difference to her technique. I have a rather cheap digital piano and am always struck by the difference at music school with the lovely pianos - at some point I shall upgrade!
Good luck to all adult learners of musical instruments, by the way! I get a huge amount of happiness from learning even though I am sure I make very slow progress with all the other distractions like work and children. Last night my teacher told me I'd made the most progress in sight reading of all his pupils - we'll leave the words 'from a low starting point' hanging unsaid, I think!!

Thank you Julie that gives me piece of mind. I think is hard to explain to people around that no, I am not preparing her to be a concert pianist, I just want her to have the best (in our budget that is) resources to achieve her full potential. I find that the first question I get from friends when I mention buying a piano is "are you preparing her for a music school?". The answer is I don't know, she's only 7 so no clue where she will be by secondary school transfer.

And reading the dedication of some children on this thread my dd is not doing enough.

Loose dd loves Stormy coast and it is on her list. She will start I think with Haydn's Allegretto, one of the alternatives and she also likes Foxtrot.

Did you find as an adult it is harder to learn to play compared with how fast children are progressing? As I said, once we purchase the piano I'd like to give it a try, first on my own using what I learnt keeping up with dd for the last almost two years but I don't think I'll find it as easy as she does. I still find it amazing that each hand does its own bit. I can't even rub my tummy and pat my head at the same time.

My pieces are the Lincolnshire poacher, lovet faller and calypso joe. I do like them all (and indeed chose them by sight reading them before my lesson) but the first one has quite a bit going on in terms of dynamics, bounce and tempo changes, plus both hands moving around the keys!

I have a digital piano, a decent one with weighted keys. I'm definitely a more motivated learner as an adult at this stage (when I got to the higher violin grades, I loved it and practised a lot) and in some ways it is easier because I have the theory, but I am a lot more anxious.

My older dd (age 8) did her prep test recently. My younger did (age 5) is very keen and starts lessons in September. DH plays reasonably competently too. It's part of the fabric of our family in a very relaxed way.

Fleur it's hard to tell because I had some musical knowledge and DS2 had none when he started. However, he is catching up quite fast. By the end of next year I suspect we will be at the same level, which will be interesting! I know he will overtake me at some point. However, we both have to practise to get new skills and both of us have to learn to practise the parts we find hard a lot more than the bits we find easier!
If it helps, playing piano is rather like driving, especially using the pedals!
Stormy Coast is my favourite too! I am still getting the hang of the fingering on page 2 but it is definitely looking achievable now!

Sciencerocks your last paragraph definitely resonates with me - there are a lot of instruments going on in this house for enjoyment!

Well we only have DD playing piano and DS a bit of electric guitar but just for fun, no grades, no teacher.

So it will be interesting to so how I get on. Personally I do think that as an adult you find the motivation easier as you are eager to do it while as a child sometimes there is the odd moment when they want to give up.

When dd asked to give up in the past before reaching grade 1 I told her not until she's 10 yo. Now I actually call her a bluff when she complains it is hard and say "ok give up then!" She always ends up saying no, she loves it but it is hard.

Well yes, more so as I can see it is getting serious, there is a lot of tehnique work compared to a year ago.

Fleur rushed answer here as I'm working but i would go for the acoustic piano anyday! It is also the loveliest piece of furniture you can have in a living room imo..

Fleur I think progress will depend on an awful lot of things, including your fine motor coordination and whether you are good at other similar tasks (I reckon someone with very fast typing skills probably has an advantage, for eg; it certainly seems to work the other way round, as both dd and I have good fine motor coordination for things like piano and we're also both super fast on a keyboard!)

As a general rule I think a motivated, well coordinated adult is likely to progress faster than an average 7 year old, at least initially, mainly because of the cognitive advantage in terms of learning to read music, understanding rhythm etc, and because adults are typically better than 7 year olds at planning and implementing effective practice.

If you were comparing yourself with a motivated older preteen or young adolescent on the other hand then you would likely be frustrated at how much easier young people find it to learn new skills. I find it endlessly frustrating how much easier my daughter finds it to master new skills on piano and guitar, even though I have more years on both instruments. The most frustrating thing is that if I ask for help she really struggles to understand why I am having difficulty - the gap is just so big that she can't put herself at my level, IYKWIM. This is particularly apparent when I am learning new strumming and picking patterns on guitar, I have to slow it right down and break it down into chunks and she doesn't understand why this process is necessary (she thinks I should just listen and then do it!). It certainly seems to be much harder at 50 to get to the point where more complex skills become completely automatic.

Thank you drummersmum I feel better now.

Mistigri I do type fast so what you wrote gave me hope. I do think I would probably go faster than dd through the first book she covered as my level of understanding is higher than hers was at 6yo.

But what she does now it's already past my level in terms of how fast she seems to grasp it, for example she knows her notes while if I want to check if she played the correct note I do have to use the mnemonic her teacher taught her to work it out. So I do think initially I'll find it easier but slow down after a while.

And yes, in terms of practice I understand why her teacher is asking her to play only few bars repeatedly and this is our main argument in our house as she seems to think practising involves playing the piece on and on so I need to step in and remind her about her teacher's request.

DD did her first music exam, well prep test in Piano today. Eventhough she was nervous the examiner wrote lots of lovley comments and she came home beaming. I was a bit sceptical about the benefits of such a test but it does seems to have boosted her confidence about going on to graded exams with knowing what to expect next time. She said she even enjoyed it!

missymew well done to your DD. Getting experience of performing and some positive feedback is very important!

fleur once you are applying your knowledge of reading music on a regular basis you'll progress very quickly. Where it's harder for adults is acquiring the necessary dexterity, and moving from the conscious application of musical knowledge (easier for adults than young children) to acquiring the automatic reflexes that make a good musician (easier for younger people).

For me as an adult learner, there are two areas where I definitely find it harder going. The first is getting pieces totally "wired" - I always have to concentrate on what I'm playing. I remember as a teenager being able to sit at a piano and play pieces I hadn't played for years - once I started playing, some sort of subconscious muscle memory seemed to take over. It is much harder to achieve that now. The other aspect is multi-tasking - I find ensemble playing tough because you have to concentrate both on playing, and on listening and reacting to other musicians. I suspect both these difficulties are just due to age and my brain becoming less plastic!

Oh yes and talking of positive feedback, tonight we had the dress rehearsal for the guitar school concert (at which we are both playing) and on the way home we stopped at our local bar/ live music venue to get ice creams. DD played there last Sunday and tonight the owner made a point of coming over and telling her that he had lots of positive feedback about her set and that people were asking when she would be playing next :)

mistigri that's wonderful, your DD must have been delighted! Does she have any more gigs lined up?
Agree about getting pieces totally wired as DS2 seems to remember pieces forever once he's got them and I'm not so sure I can do that now. My main issue is getting the dexterity for some of the more interesting fingering on piano!
missymew so glad your Dd enjoyed the prep test. I think it's good they get the comments straightaway as well.

Thanks misti and LooseAtTheSeams. Yes she came out of school and gave me her certificate with comments straightaway, which made a nice change from the usual way I find things out! They got to do the exam using the big grand piano too. Eventhough she said you have to give the keys "a bit of welly" lol.

Thanks for all your insights for playing instruments as adults. I'll come back with my experience in a couple of months time hopefully. I have tried to read a lot and I am a bit worried that I won't be able to do it on my own but I can't afford a teacher just yet with buying a piano a several activities the kids are doing.

Mistigri you must be very proud of your DD, she sounds really good. I was on holiday last summer in another country and we stopped to have a coffee at a lovely outside bar. There was a digital piano there and this teenage girl turned up and played for us. It was divine and so surreal.

Missy well done to your DD.

Fleuredise, I could have written your post about self teaching piano. I did back in Christmas 2011, for a few months, and decided that I wanted structure in my learning as well as avoiding bad habits and sloppiness. I got DS' tutor to teach me and haven't looked back. I only get fortnightly lessons but I usually find that is ample time to learn the next few phrases fluently.

I would say as a adult, you progress quicker because of enthusiasm to practise more than children. However, I find that even though I am working towards grade 7 and DS is working around grade 4 standard, he can still play scales faster than me. Something to do with having younger bones.

Anyway, go for it and if you enjoy it, I would strongly recommend getting a tutor for the reasons you've already said in your op.

I play piano and decided to try and teach myself jazz piano. My fingers and brain just can't manage it! Piano isn't my first instrument - I'm grade 8 standard but can't help wishing I could play great jazz without relying on learning it note by note from music!

It has meant that we have really pushed miss sax player to have both classical and jazz approaches to her playing.

Great news on the exam haul, people.

I'm worried
Would you expect the accompanist to your child's violin exam to be familiar with the piece she'll be playing beforehand? I don't know if I'm over reacting but we went for my daughter's violin exam rehearsal. The exam itself is in ten days' time. The accompanist's playing was not right and at one point she ended without realising there was a second page to the song. She apologised and asked to continue.
I asked the accompanist if she was familiar with the piece and her response was "I sight read it". That's when I got really concerned.
Is this normal? For an exam accompanist? We had to bring our own accompanist book so it's not as if she'll be expected to practise over the next ten days and even then, aren't they meant to use someone who knows these exam pieces inside out??

Ummm... I never had more than one rehearsal with the accompanist, but we provided the music beforehand.

I've played for ballet exams before where I was literally sightreading (RAD dates changed due to snow and cancelled flights so I had one day's warning as an emergency accompanist). They were grades, not majors. For my violin lot, I play piano so not an issue.

But... Would you expect an accompanist to know every piece from every grade for every instrument? Could you have brought her a photocopy?

Essex - quite normal for the accompanist not to know a piece in my experience and also only get one rehearsal. But we always leave the piano part with them or send it beforehand. Can you send them a copy? If it went so badly could you try to fit a second rehearsal in?

Ok I feel a bit better now. I hadn't actually thought of asking for another rehearsal but that sounds like a good idea. I could leave her with a copy also, yes. I guess I was so surprised by her not knowing what she was doing...I'd assumed the exam accompanists are teachers themselves and I would've thought music teachers teach alll grades on a regular basis and an exam centre would select accordingly...wrong assumption it seems. I'll contact the music service first thing on Monday.
Thank you.

the exam centre doesn't usually select the accompanist - it's the school/teacher that does. And they often have to play for loads of different instruments, huge choice of pieces at all grades. So very unlikely that they'd be familiar with them all - they often change every couple of years, as well. The teachers I know who accompany get to know a few of the popular ones on certain instruments that they teach a lot, but often end up sightreading at the rehearsal and having a look at tricky bits before the exam itself. They aren't necessarily note perfect, either - their aim is to keep going and get the rhythm right and stick with the candidate, and sometimes that means making up a bit if needed, specially for the higher grades. It's not the same standard it would be if they were doing a performance where both people were being 'judged' equally, if you like. The accompanist's mistakes aren't going to matter as long as they don't put the candidate off - which sometimes they do, and things like missing out a page you would expect to be sorted before the exam. So the accompanist needs to be reasonably accomplished but not perfect - more important that they can follow the candidate if anything goes wrong and adapt to what they do. I have heard of someone who go so put off by the accompanist playing really wrong rhythms and a jazzy sort of piece that she couldn't come in right, and then that threw her, and it all went wrong from there - but that was about grade 7 or 8.

I see. Interesting.
Thanks, runawayhome.
I would hope that if a candidate got put off as a result of the accompanist, the examiner would take that into consideration. This is grade 4 so not massively complex maybe.

This is the council music service. It wasn't booked through a school. My daughter's private violin teacher picked up the form, I filled in the form and delivered it at their offices. If this lady is not available for another rehearsal I might ask if it's ok for her school violin teacher to be her accompanist as her private one doesn't play piano.
I guess the key is for my daughter to practise and become so confident in her playing that nothing can affect her...but that's so hard on a just-turned-nine year old.