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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

Original poster

What is the best way to learn any new song on any instrument

46 replies

mom17 · 26/02/2015 03:56

Just curious to know How kids who are doing good start their new pieces ? DS tries new songs (2 on an average) and shows it to teacher after a week(once a week class) and teacher corrects his mistakes and makes him do practice in class till OK and next week goes in preparing playing old songs of current book and 2 more new songs. Old songs are played once a day and I try to convince him to play new song 5 times a day as initial 2-3 days of any new songs are generally full of pushing as DS complains of them being difficult( he says this all the time till he gets hang of it) and I am getting sick of pushing for those everyday as he is always reluctant to play it 5 times. BTW, this is for Piano ( nearing Grade-1 level, started 7-8 months before). I want other parents opinion as I am at my nerves convincing him to play new songs 5 times a day(3 days goes in frowning).

OP posts:
Fleurdelise · 26/02/2015 07:54

Dd gets a new piece only when the other ones are ready. She will then work on the new piece with the teacher in lesson hands separately. Then for a week she will practice what the teacher asked, either just right hand/left hand, either both hands separately. The following week her teacher will listen to what she practised, correct any mistakes and then working on putting it hands together. She usually achieves this in a week depending on the difficulty of the piece. Then the teacher listens again and if needed corrects timing issues, mistakes and we may have another week of practising it before she moves to another piece providing the previous one is being played at an acceptable level and has achieved its purpose of teaching.

What method book is your DS using?

Fleurdelise · 26/02/2015 08:00

Also she doesn't play the piece a number of times, unless the teacher has isolated a bar that Dd has problems with and asked her to repeat that bar 10 times. Sometimes she finds it much easier to practice bar by bar rather than the whole piece specially hands together. She will practice 2-3 bars in one go and once those are fine she moves onto the next bar.

Original poster
mom17 · 26/02/2015 09:03

My son used Easiest John thompson piano lesson book 1 and 2. Then we started Easiest John thomposon book-3 and simultaneously also started Alfred premier lesson Book 2B ( on Julie 's recommendation, must thanks her as tunes are so catchy). Teacher asked DS not to learn new songs of EJTPL on his own but for practice he can try any song of AP, but after few songs of EJTPL, teach never made him do that and never asked not to learn AP pieces on his own. He always listened to previous week's songs to know if he is doing it correctly and then asks him if he has tried any new songs. Since my DS always had 1-3 new songs , teacher listened and corrected those and that's how it has been going.

I found this to be good approach as such as it increases his site-reading but less time in lesson as he is already familiar with song (at times teacher doesn't need to correct him also when songs is perfect).

OP posts:
Original poster
mom17 · 26/02/2015 09:12

*and less time in lesson

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Original poster
mom17 · 26/02/2015 10:36

He is currently on Alfred premier lesson book-3 and almost completed 7-8 songs.

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Worriedandlost · 26/02/2015 12:56

I changed a number of piano teachers and I think they all have different and valid approaches it is just a matter to find out what suits your particular child. One of dd's teachers had approach as described by Fleurdelise, but it did not suit my dd! She started piano quite early and had problems associated with an early age such as concentration for example, and to work on perfection and polishing it endlessly just did not work-she was too bored to play the same piece again and again!
Her current teacher gives her plenty of new pieces-2-3 at a time, but not the whole piece but say third or half of it (but to learn both hands together). Then next lesson we learn whatever is left and then new pieces are introduced. She also does not give "grade appropriate" pieces but various levels, say we have Burgmuller 25 Easy and Progressive Studies, and sometimes we play grade 1-2 level, but sometimes it is grade 5 piece. And yes, I agree, it is good for sight reading too!
Regarding the learning of new pieces, the friend of mine advised me to learn one bar at a time -right hand, left hand, together. I feel this approach works the best but sometimes it is very tempting to do few bars in one go, but it usually gives worse and slower result :)

Fleurdelise · 26/02/2015 13:08

I agree it depends what it suits the child. Dds teacher keeps a piece going about 3 weeks with the approach I described above, after that she will move on. With the exception of exams of course.

When staring a new piece dds teacher gets her started so to speak, discusses the new things like phrases, new notes, anything new that the piece is meant to teach and then dd is figuring the rest while practising.

She also does studies by Czerny at the same time wich I believe are meant to teach technique. And also gets theory work on the side.

Mistigri · 26/02/2015 14:07

My DD started piano last year but she is quite a bit older and working at a more advanced standard so this may not be completely relevant.

Typically at home, prior to the lesson, she will sight-read through the next 8-16 bars of the piece she's working on, just to make sure she has identified the notes and any general issues. Then during the lesson she will work with her teacher on the technical aspects of this section to make sure that when she practises at home she is not reinforcing errors.

Practice really depends on the type of difficulties but usually she will work hands separately, then together with pedaling (she always plays with the pedal right from the start rather than learning the piece without and then adding it later - I don't know if this is the right way), and she will repeat difficult passages several times. Often she will spend a whole practice session on just 2-3 bars if the piece is technically challenging.

Worriedandlost · 26/02/2015 15:53

Fleurdelise, Czerny is a really good thing to do, dd had 4 piano teachers and only one used Czerny, but then she was a foreigner and was taught at different school. Our current teacher did some Czerny as I asked her, but somehow it slipped away now. I think I should remind her as I think it is really good for technique. The other good book to use is Kabalevsky for children (op.27 and op.39), also plenty of technical pieces at different levels

Original poster
mom17 · 26/02/2015 16:12

If you don't mind, can you pls. point me to URL for these books as I would like to buy these but not sure if these are the one you are talking about. Would prefer G1+ ( near to G1)

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Fleurdelise · 26/02/2015 16:26

Worriedandlost yes I do think Czerny helps a lot. I love the fact it is also musical work so it doesn't feel like excercise. I'll have a look at Kabalevsky also. Dds teacher said she wants to put her onto first lesson in Bach and Burgmuller after exam, I need to purchase these. She also recommended Bartok Microkosmos.

mom17 this is the book dd works on, takes you from pre-grade 1 up to grade 5/6 in studies. One of the pieces in it is set for grade 4 this syllabus.

Carl Czerny The Little Pianist (Complete) Op. 823 Pf (Schirmer's Library of Musical Classics) www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0793525977/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_bG07ub1FKW4MQ
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0793525977/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_bG07ub1FKW4MQ

Worriedandlost · 26/02/2015 16:53

I have got this Czerny, but it shows as not available now (so basically it is a collection of the opuses as listed on a cover)
www.amazon.co.uk/Czerny-Collected-Studies-Schirmers-Classics/dp/1495004260/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1424969538&sr=1-1&keywords=Czerny%3A+Collected+Studies+-+Op.+299%2C+Op.+740%2C+Op.+849%3A+Schirmer%27s+Library+of+Musical+Classics

Worriedandlost · 26/02/2015 16:55

Fleurdelise, I have got Bartok Microkosmos too! Bought it in charity shop some time ago:))) did not have chance to discuss with teacher though, thanks for reminding!

Original poster
mom17 · 26/02/2015 17:10

Thanks Fleurdelise and Worriedandlost.

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Fleurdelise · 26/02/2015 21:36

Thank you too for the links worriedandlost I will check them out and place an order tomorrow to get them by next Saturday's lesson.

I have to say dds teacher seems to like me a lot because I keep getting books which means she doesn't need to work on a book at a time with dd. Of course she has her own books also but it does feel like we work together for dds musical benefit. Smile

Worriedandlost · 26/02/2015 22:37

Fleurdelise, not at all!
You seem to be lucky with your teacher, as majority of mine would not do what I suggest, but the one we have now said that we do not need to buy any new books as these are plenty, and I am very pleased with it :))) I read some music blogs and got the names of the books from there :) Clementi Sonatinas seem to be another good book but I still did not get chance to order one. Dd is learning one sonatina for exam and it is lovely, really nice piece.

morethanpotatoprints · 26/02/2015 22:46

My dd does different things depending on the instrument.
But, it usually starts with playing one phrase, getting it right and moving onto another.
Not necessarily the next phrase, could be the last phrase.
Any juicy bits that take longer she will play first next time.
She learns about 10 new pieces a week if she has a quiet spell, but she loves adding to repertoire.

Worriedandlost · 26/02/2015 22:51

morethanpotatoprints, I vaguely remember your previous posts, am I right that your daughter is doing music "professionally", I mean she is not just having private lessons, but either at specialist music school or with some orchestra? Basically she has quite high level?

morethanpotatoprints · 26/02/2015 22:59

worried

Yes, thats her. She's freaky with it, absolutely driven Grin
Dh is a musician too.
When dd starts school again, I'm getting a soprano as there hasn't been time and space for me to play for a long time.
I am nowhere near their standards though and a mere intermediate with some work Grin

Fleurdelise · 26/02/2015 23:04

Worriedandlost I usually talk to my dds teacher about my ideas and she agrees or not. Generally I let myself directed by her but she did get it in my head that dd is talented (I don't really believe in talent but in hard work so I think because she is showing commitment she appears to have talent Grin) and she wants to teach her with a possible music path in mind. (Obviously it is too early but she'll rather try than missing out if that makes sense). So she mentioned a whole list of composers to get when I go (crazy) buying books as she will take her off method books now and teach to her individual needs.

What grade is your dd taking worried?

morethan wow, 10 pieces a week! She must be really amazing. I can't imagine dd practising so many a week. How old is she?

Fleurdelise · 26/02/2015 23:07

What school is she going to morethan? Well done to her, she sounds so motivated.

Worriedandlost · 26/02/2015 23:57

morethanpotatoprints, cool, I am always interested to read about musical kids! I now remember that you mentioned your dh before too! What is your dd main instrument?

Fleurdelise, parents are always last to believe that their dc are talented :)), I have however couple of friends who happened to be piano teachers, and we spoke about musical talents in children, etc, therefore if your dd teacher reckons she is talented then she most likely is! And commitment on top of it...just wow!

My dd is preparing for grade 3, totally refuses to practice now (I just hope it is a temporary stage as I am fed up of nagging her), but insists on carrying on lessons!

morethanpotatoprints · 27/02/2015 00:30

Hello.

worried and Fleur

I will pm you both, tomorrow. When I finally get up.
I get a lazy day tomorrow.

Believe it or not I know about the nagging, but with dd its doing anything that isn't connected to music.
I swear her mental arithmetic has improved since I changed the wording and related it to a music situation.
She doesn't understand why she has to do academic work at all, she has a shock coming to her. Grin