Two music exams and how to handle the teachers

[Worriedandlost]

Dd is doing two instruments and it seems like both teachers want her to make exams this summer, at least at the moment. Same grade for both.
However, one of the teachers asked me today about our plans for the second instrument (piano). Then she announced that she will not send dd for exam at summer if we are planning to do both instruments in one go. Her idea was that we should leave piano till autumn, but if not, then we will do her instrument at autumn. She suggested that I should speak to the piano teacher but when I refused said that she will find out herself (teachers know each other).

I personally believe that there is no point in postponing anything, and at worse dd will miss few marks if doing both instruments, but will not do any better at autumn. Both teachers already going through grade pieces since new year and dd played all the scales and arpeggios long before that.

My question is-is it normal for the teachers to do this sort of planning regarding the other person teaching? I quite often have that feeling that this teacher is trying to control something she should not. Or am I wrong and she has best dd's interests in heart?

BackforGood, I agree about skipping grade, but v teacher said she prefers to do all the exams.
About the importance-I do not rule out the possibility of getting into junior music department of music college, so yes, it is important not to mess up with exam timing :(

I think you need to step back and ask yourself why you are getting so worked up and angry about a music exam. It might be more understandable if your DD was a teenager sitting exams needed to study music at uni, but the lower grades are just not that important.

The other question is whether you feel that the relationship with the v teacher is worth saving. I think most teachers will eventually pull the plug if they feel they are being railroaded by parents (and sorry but you do give this impression). But at the same time, if the v teacher isn't prepared to consider a more flexible approach than sitting every single grade, maybe you'd be better off looking for another one?

ATEOTD the stakes are low and it would be concerning three adults were unable to be come to a mutually acceptable compromise!

Sorry, typos :-/

Mistigri, I don' t know... I take music lessons seriously and don't want the teachers to mess up with it.

Teacher is a really good teacher, but dd is a good student too, so I am stuck, too risky to look for another teacher! Problem is that teacher knows that she is good too :)

And no, I am not railroading the teacher, though I can see where you are coming from :), it is just my frustration, and thanks to everyone that listened and spoke to me

Generally taking two exams in the same session isn't a great idea due to stress and work involved, however this sometimes happens. I have a student who is taking exams in two instruments this session, different boards unfortunately so can't even transfer the aural! But she is sensible and had learnt all the material so we were just polishing, myself, other teacher, parent and child all happy.
I work for a music service so we do have these conversations all of the time three/four way so please don't worry about the three/four way conversation. To be honest I like to hear my colleague's professional opinion as well as the parent/pupil so we do the best thing for the pupil's musical education, sometimes it's good to compare notes so that if there are similar things to work on, the pupil gets it from all sides!

Hello worried

Just wondered if you had any luck with the two exam entries.
I would be worried about a teacher who said they preferred to do all the grades because everybody is an individual and their needs should come first, not the wishes of the teacher.
There is no need to do every exam at all, the early ones aren't that important and if your child is doing more than one instrument even less important.
finding a good teacher is not only important but can be difficult and finding one who agrees with you can be even more so.
Stick to your guns if you have the info to back up your wishes, be prepared to change teachers if necessary.
My dd took 3 exams during one session last year and whilst I agree 3 distinctions would have been great she was happy with one and 2 high merits.

Worried, I don't see that point why the violin teacher want to do all the grades.

I would prefer the teacher who pays more attention to the basic technique and solid foundation rather than the grades. Most of the kids who aim to professional don't even take any exam. DS has learned 3.5 years and will take G7 this summer and it's his first violin exam . Actually, his teacher has never mentioned exam. I asked the teacher to prepare a exam only hope that a certificate will do something good for DS's 11+ application in two years time.

I'd be worried about the insistence on all the grades too.

Finally had a chance to speak to piano teacher-she backed up my thought that we do not need to decide about exam right now, though I had impression that she is not in a favour of two exams at a time too.

Ionacat, this is why I want to do two exams too-so that dd has an input from both teachers. I also want to see her "raw" violin results, so far she was always doing piano first, violin second, and her violin results were way better than piano's.

Ladies, I have to admit that taking every exam does not bother me too much because dd really likes doing them (I have impression she does not quite get it, it is fun for her), besides v teacher is not doing only exam preparation, they play a lot before entering exams, so yeas, foundation wise I am happy with her. I am more concerned that she is trying to control other bits of dd's musical education, but not in a way-let us all work towards common goal, but rather- I am in charge here and she is my property :)

BettertoChange, so your ds must be about 8-9yo and is around G7 level after 3.5 years of playing violin?? Wow! I am really impressed! I always thought (and thanks to the teachers too) that dd is not doing too bad, but when I read something like that I feel almost depressed :) because it is really cool and seems way too high standard to achieve!

OP what grade are we talking about here? Ds did g4 and g2 in the same session (one exam right after the other in fact) without problems but now he's doing g5 I'm glad he can focus on the one instrument this term.

Just to throw another view into the equation.

We found that progress was immense when taking exams out of the equation.
I don't mean to sound holier than thou because I took some persuading.
We are always told how grades are important and we encourage/push our dc into taking them.
I know sometimes it can be because a certain school asks for grades or looks at the highest for scholarship, but they really aren't necessary.
Take them to gain a goal, achieve a certificate but the music schools look for potential not grades passed. I have seen young children of 8 or 9 with grade 8 be refused from the conservatoire junior departments, because they play like robots.
With practice a child can learn to play 27 pieces, learn the scales etc and not be at all musical.
Let them play, have fun, leave some exams out and see them flourish.
I never thought dh was right he was, but he relented and let dd take grade 4 last summer. This summer she will be ready for gr8 and played this standard for her recent audition. She only started the instrument in Jan 2013.
Other instruments where she took gr2, 4, etc saw the expected progression but nothing amazing and produced the piece of paper, that in a few years time will mean nothing.
What use is a grade 5 when you have a grade 8?

Sorry just seen Better post.

So going from the theory of a grade a year with average practice (whatever that is) Better ds would be working towards gr4 in the summer and my dd would be grade 5 in summer.
If you play more than one instrument and working through all the grades, not wanting to take too many per session, it would take forever to get a few grade 8's you'd have left school.
In addition, some instruments would have to wait for an exam until way after you were ready to accommodate the others.
My dh told me a good rule of thumb is one exam for gr 1-3 (beginners) one exam from 4 -6 (intermediate) and grade 8 (advanced)
I only take notice of him because he's a specialist, we have had disagreements but he's always right. I speak as dds parent, he as her teacher in music.

morethanpotatoprints - interesting. Dd took G5 last session and I am really happy that we have no exams on the horizon on her main instrument - I can already see a lot of improvement in technique as we spend much more time on tecnichal studies etc and random pieces. I am inclined to go with your DH and wait until g8; however our JD loves grades so i suspect we will be expected to do g7. We will see. I can see a reason to take another grade before secondary school scholarship exams which i susoect is a factormothers on this thread need to balance in - but dd is yr4 so have some time to think about it.

janet

are you sure your jd likes exams, just check what it actually says.
i am aware that some may differ and I'm only aware of the Northern, Welsh and Scottish schools, but check and see.
Sometimes they say they want a child to be e.g a distinction at grade 5 level.
Then when you look closely they don't have to have taken any exams at all and just be the level.
Obviously you would play at a greater level if you wanted to be sure.
Some even have a substitute test for scales if you haven't taken exams.
I do know its different for scholarships though and they like the piece of paper

Morethan - we are already in the young bit of a JD and yes they love them.....dd took grades 1,2,4,5 over an 18month period. Se loved it as she 'caught up' with the earlier/quicker starting peers. But she def needs to get off that train for now :)

But I don't say that was a good thing - I am very new to the whole music thing and I understand a lot more now. So I understand op's concerns - ultimately it has to be a dialogue between parents and teacher and child I feel.

janet

She is doing well for a young age. I am surprised they like the exams so much. I know like any other school that they need to show progression and there is no better way, on paper than exams passed.
but I was under the impression that a talented child would gain entry irrespective of grades passed.

Morethan - I am sure that is right when they enter slightly at 11; I have been looking at other jd's and I agree they don't all want exams. I just think we stumbled into a slightly different set up for the early years - and as good as these kids are, even with their grade 8 distinctions, there is no guarantee at all they will all get places in the main programme at 11.
I think it is difficult if you have no musical knowledge. My dd has had an amazing time, we have had some incredible teachers and made firm friends and I don't regret the last few years for one second,, I am just glad we are entering a more 'considered' phase now and that I know a little more so that I can be more of a party to decision making and to balance in other commitments (but with complete respect for the professionals).

janet

Isn't it interesting how different ages and areas can differ in their requirements.
I guess that's before we start factoring in variations in the instruments and competition for places.
I hope your dd gets into the junior/senior whichever they call it when she is older.
I'm sure she will with her progress to date.

howtodrainyourflagon, it is gr3 we are talking about.

morethanpotatoprints, I like what your dh is saying, in a way preparation for grades is a waste of time as it is usually 3-4 months from my experience, unfortunately cannot change it as teachers decide, not me! Saying that, I had impression that p teacher is ok with missing some exams-we have been with her less than an year and I am still learning her ways :) V teacher was doing exam every second term so far, if she goes for her plans this one may be year later since previous exam :(

Btw, are there ways to find out independent opinion on dc playing? My concern is that there may be some confusion between quick learning and good playing and this is what worries me :(

I have mixed views on grades. In the end the only one that matters is grade 8. Grade 5 is a bit of a marker too but I doubt if one can do no grades at all and just leap in to take grade 8 successfully without being at least familiar with the format.

I think students compare grades and feel they are either better or worse than they actually are when in fact some are rapid learners in the lower grades and then slow down and may become discouraged. A mistaken choice of teacher can slow progress. Some just reach their limit and tread water. Sometimes it's the music theory that is a hold-up. Or an inspirational teacher can bring on rapid progress when all hope has been lost!

Grades have some importance if the student is learning a very popular instrument such as flute. There are fewer slots in an orchestra for flautists than violinists, for example, so competition for woodwind players to get into a youth orchestra can be fierce. The powers that be are likely to be metaphorically lynched by complaining parents if they accept a student who plays like a dream but doesn't actually have a piece of paper to prove it!

DD plays two instruments and also liked music theory so much she carried on with it after grade 5. I don't recall there ever being a clash in 11 years where she had to take two exams in the same term. She skipped grades with no harm done to her progression, though only on the advice of teachers.

When taking on more than one instrument there has to be a bit of juggling - progress in each one isn't always smooth and even.

( I can take an over-view now. At the time it seemed like an endless series of difficult decisions!)

Grades can be useful because they ensure that progression is uniform across the range of skills (and of course there may be an external imperative, like university or music school entrance). But because of the time involved in preparing for them, they also take something away - whether it's playing just for fun, preparing pieces that are "out of grade", writing your own music etc.

DD's never taken an exam. She started playing piano in June last year (she had some basic keyboard skills, and it is a third instrument, but nine months ago she could barely read the bass clef). When she does an audition in a couple of months she'll play at least one piece that has been set for grade 7. (She's not a "grade 7 pianist" - see comment above about uniform progression! - but she's certainly not butchering the music).

Doing all the grades may be appropriate/ useful on a first instrument (arguable) but on a second it's really totally unnecessary since you are duplicating so many skills. In fact I'm sure that "doing all the grades" is a modern thing as when I learnt piano and clarinet, you did 3 and 5, and then most students just carried on playing for pleasure and only those aiming for music school/ uni took grade 8.

Apparently teachers decided that dd is taking v exam. Which makes me wonder-did p teacher really mean it or did she not? It is still plenty of time before registration deadline....