Guides Moan

[2stixoftwix]

My dd started guides last June, it started off really fun, doing high ropes, crabbing, survival skills

Autumn term, they did 1 x dusk walk the rest of the time they were in the guide hut.
this term they are in the guide hut every week doing things like minion mayhem and selfie challenge.

Is this usual for guides ?, my dd wanted to start scouts but it was really rough and put her off as there were 3 girls and about 25 boys whacking each other

within a mile we have a climbing wall, swimming pool, water skiing, yachting, fabulous walks, canoeing - the list goes on and on .........

I don't want to complain as I know the leaders do it for nothing, but really - a whole evening doing loom bands - I was told that guides was boring, but I'm amazed how dull it is.

What can I do - who can I tactfully write to - advice please !

I have found Guides to be very different from Brownies, which surprised me because the leaders are the same. I have been told that at Guides the onus is on the girls to contribute/lead planning, could this be why little is happening? Perhaps ask your daughter if they are asked for suggestions.

We found the same here too with Brownies tbh. Have you thought of a switch to cubs/scouts which seems to be more like the Brownies and Guides I remember, lots of outdoorsy activities and more generally more educational in a worldly sense.

Of course each unit is different but scouts is definitely more 'us'.

Hi
she hated the cubs session she went to to, too many boys hitting each other, so that is out which is a shame as they do heaps of activities.
She has now lost her place

I will ask her if she ever puts in suggestions

It seems to me that the scouts do loads, the guides (at least ours) still wants the girls to do girly things

There isn't anything in the middle for girls to do adventurous things with other girls

I see it as very dependent on the leaders. DD started Guides last September. I have friends with older daughters there so I know the unit used to be very active and do lots of outdoorsy stuff. However the most experienced leader has left and they have been playing games and doing craft activities in the hut since DD started. I am extremely grateful to the leaders for doing what they do and will certainly not be raising it with anyone but DD is a bit frustrated. I'm also not certain that the other girls would be particularly enthusiastic about the outdoorsy stuff. She wants to go to Scouts but I am disinclined to let her; she would be the only girl and I think it would be unfair on the boys, many of whom are DS's friends. The same happened to me 30 years ago; our outdoorsy leader left and her replacement was really into craft. I'd already been there a couple of years and didn't last much longer.

OP, I do think your moan is somewhat unjustified. You've said they did fun outdoor things in the summer and probably will again this summer. But canoeing? Water skiing? In the winter? My local water activities centre is closed on winter evenings from late September until April! And the swimming times for our particular local pool mean it's closed during Guide meetings. I think you also underestimate the amount of paperwork it takes to run an offsite activity. I'd estimate at least 2 hours of planning, booking, sending out forms, chasing forms and payments, chasing again... you get the picture.

I don't know where they meet, but possibly they could do fire lighting activities. But maybe the leader isn't confident with things like that? Are you?

If you want to do something to make it change, actually DO something. I'm sure all units would love an occasional volunteer who could come in and help organise trips (that cost not that much money, btw, water skiing is probably not the way to go!) or run a fire lighting evening, or do a fun wide game one evening.

And be prepared if you do try and organise a trip to have it fall through. I tried to take my girls ice skating one weekend as it's too far for an evening. 3 positive replies out of 24...
Being a leader is hard. Don't write a letter of complaint or suggestion. Come up with an activity you can do and offer to run it.

Lurk, I don't think that doing something always makes a difference. I helped whenever help was asked for (I was usually the only person who offered though!) and now help every week at something else so I am very prepared to get stuck in, so does DH who has spent money obtaining a training certificate to be able to teach his hobby to the children.

Sometimes I simply don't think a unit works for a child or family's ethos, it didn't for us.

Guides was always really educational when I was young and a place to escape things like make up and loom bands/selfie sticks/whatever the latest craze is.

I do recognise that a lot of girls/people will want to do that sort of thing but it isn't something we buy into in life which is why Scouts is a better option for us.

OP have you thought of Woodcraft folk or whatever it is called or just a young person's conservation group/nature group. The nature group and scouts are what work for us along with a history club run by a small local museum.

But the issue is that although maybe it doesn't suit your dd, it may suit others.

The activities you described both my dd's (who do guides, one at the older end, one at the younger) would love. An evening making loom bands while talking to friends?... they'd be thrilled. It amazing how long they can loom band for-actually even ds would probably have loved that in an evening.

Dd2 would love the climbing wall/canoeing etc and be equally happy doing that. The other would not. She wouldn't mind doing a Saturday sometimes out for that sort of thing, but in the evening, particularly winter evening, she would have no desire to do it. In fact, having several of those a term would almost certainly lead to her dropping out pretty quickly.

They generally do 1-2 activities a term out of the hut, which are attended by around half to 3/4 the usual members, so I think most of the girls going prefer the in hut things. They discuss at the first meeting of term what they want to do, and the leaders will put forward 3-4 ideas they have, which they vote on which to do.

Ds (in Beavers) does do more outside activities than the girls did in Rainbows/Brownies or Guides. But he enjoys the inside activities as much.

Guides often depends on the leaders and what ideas the girls come up with. I've been covering my friend's guide unit recently and finding a happy medium doesn't always work. One girl kept huffing and puffing when a younger girl made suggestions, so I asked her what her suggestions were and she told me "well I don't know"

Winter activities can be hard. But come the nicer weather things may move out doors again. Maybe speak to your daughter about suggesting ideas.

Also it could be a cost issue, census is due from today and can wipe out a lot of bank accounts because we are a charity and many leaders can keep a reign on things until the next term when they get more funds.

I can't add anything that hasn't already been said.

Your expectations of what can be achieved in (usually) an hour and a half on a dark winter evening seem rather unrealistic. If you insist on writing now - rather than waiting to see whether lighter evenings and the arrival of a new term's subs bring about a change in emphasis - please make sure it's a constructive offer of help, rather than a grumble.

My Brownie age dc would love the activities your Guides are being offered. They wouldn't enjoy canoeing in February. I go along with what everyone else on the thread says. I would never criticize people who give up time to help my daughter's have a lovely evening once a week, every week.

It's changed a lot since I was a guide and while I think it's a positive thing that the girls are taking more responsibility for choosing activities etc. (weren't they always supposed to do that?) the thing is that most of them probably do want to be taking selfies rather than spending their 'indoors' evenings learning skills like map-reading, finding your way using a compass, the stars or an analogue watch, and how to do West-Country and square whipping so that when they do go outside they can actually do proper scouting activities. I know most of our local companies are basically cooking this term although they have some boat things planned.

There are other reasons why I decided in the end that I don't feel happy to volunteer for the 'regular' guides - including changes to the promise and law - but I'm hoping to be involved in one of the traditional scouting movements which is independent from WAGGS but is international in scope and was founded during BP's lifetime. The ethos suits me better, they have all-boy scouts and guides who actually do more outdoorsy traditional "scout stuff" but in a girls-only context. I mention this because you may be able to find such a group depending on your location.

But, to be realistic, there's only so much you can do when it's dark and raining. I'd probably be encouraging badge work, service to others, patrol activities and learning skills that can be used when the weather is better (e.g. do they know how to build a hammock?).

if being with just girls is not too important to her (sorry, only skimmed as on laptop and it is slooooow) she might like to try Woodcraft Folk if you've got one near?

all are mixed. There's a fair bit of indoor stuff, but they always seem to do a lot of running about outside, even when it's freezing

I am a volunteer with a youth group. I do a huge amount of work to run it and deal with all the safeguarding, financial, sporting and competition aspects of it. We have about 30 members, the majority of whom have 2 parents.

I am one of 5 parents who volunteer and run the group.

All the other parents refuse to help, and many of them do nothing but complain. It is pretty soul destroying TBH.

Maybe the guides group could do with a bit more input?

My DD and her friends all love guides because it's their only all-girl time in during the week. They do do walks and out door stuff in the summer, but in the winter they certainly do lots of crafts, loom bands, nail painting, and cooking. In fact they cook something or other every week and then all sit and chat and eat. I think it's fabulous that they are building great female friendships and having a really relaxed time. Literally all the girls in our village go along. The leaders are doing a brilliant job, I think. All all for about £2 a session.

I do Brownies and we are pretty much indoor this term (night walk and a couple of trips to the library for booklovers notwithstanding). Because the girls are younger we do less 'modern girly' stuff and more useful or interesting' stuff (IMO obviously) but it is generally indoors.

It doesn't have to be boring: there are lots of programme ideas that the Guides should be picking from, as well as coming up with their own ideas. Is your daughter enjoying it?

This is a recurring point of discussion among our local guides leaders. Are girls put off or attracted by "too safe" activities. Sometimes it's the parents, you know, who decide. Some parents actively want a tiny safe calm boring as fuck brownies or guides group.

One local guide group is much more girlie "Design your fantasy bedroom": they must have done that for 6 weeks.

DD switched to another group at same hut which is much more active, show-offy, do 6 weeks of water sports in summer. But even they have kind of defaulted to a lot of cooking in last 3 months.

Is there another local Guide unit she could try out? There is loads of fun stuff in the program but it really does vary a lot from unit to unit, what is actually made available to the girls. Unfortunately in my experience there does still seem to be a focus on Guides still being inside doing crafts and other girly things most of the time. Getting outside and trying adventurous activities is more often that not an occasional 'treat' rather than part of the core program.

Or failing that try Scouts again, its likely to be quite different from the Cub session she experienced before, especially if you go to a different group this time. At least with a Scout group you are more likely to get the outdoorsy stuff as standard as it is more central to their program, rather than an optional extra.

I'm afraid I find the 'it's Census time of year' excuses a bit lazy. This happens every year so can be budgeted for, so there's no reason why the unit should do less in February than any other time of year. To a degree I feel the same about 'leaders are volunteers/try volunteering yourself' type arguments. Far too often that is used as a way to dismiss criticism or suggestions from others.

I would have agreed with you about the "it's census" argument being a bit far fetched until a few years ago, when paying census left my Brownie so strapped for cash that we spent a while doing nothing that cost more than pennies. We're in a much better financial position now, but I know that my dd's Guide unit are going to be broke until the end of term. Obviously, there are lessons to be learnt about budgeting, but we try to keep the subs as low as possible - we don't want anyone to be deterred from joining because they can't afford the subs - and if there is money in the bank our first instinct is usually to spend it on quality activities for the girls.

Left my Brownie pack ...

OP, as others have said the girls choose their own program, there are all sorts of challenge badges popping up all over the place, often written by girls themselves (including a loom band one which might explain that night) The Selfie Challenge badge for example was written by some Rangers, so before you complain please check with your daughter if that's actually what the girls chose.

I'm afraid I find the 'it's Census time of year' excuses a bit lazy. This happens every year so can be budgeted for, so there's no reason why the unit should do less in February than any other time of year.

Yes it can be budgeted for to an extent, (the amount changes each year but you can make a rough guess) my unit are actually no worse off this term than usual as we've put money aside for census through the year but we still can't afford to get out as much as we do in the summer because we can't do as many cheap outdoors bits on cold dark evenings, plus we paid for the girls to go on a district thinking day event, so have only been/will be going out twice this term.

Just to point out by the way, our Guides have done more outside exciting stuff the last 2 terms than DS' Scouts have (as have my Rainbows) Scouts vary from troop to troop just as much as Guides do.

Hi sorry I haven't been around to check back.

When I stated the canoeingcanoeing, walking etc. I meant in the autumn. September / October last year was really warm and sunny and they were stuck in the hut week after week.

My dd came home really upset last week. They had been making cookies yet because she and another girl had dropped flour on the floor (though had cleared it up) she wasn't alowwed to bring her cookies home.

I did ask her if the other guides ever chose what activities to do and she said no they were never asked. They did what the leader tells them to do.

Unfortunately there is a long waiting list to get into scouts, and nothing much else is available as we are quite rural

It sounds like offering to lead a single activity evening per term in the Autumn and Spring would have a big impact on the way the group operates - would you be up for this?

Ds was in a Beavers group for a while which was very indoor focused, but that was largely because the group was too big with not enough consistent help, plus some children who needed some additional support making risk assessments look horrible as soon as you opened the door! They've sorted it out now, it's much better. But we moved to Woodcraft Folk.

an indoor activity we're considering that could be adapted to be more outdoorsy by getting the girls to take pictures of something natural/in the local area/outside, and could add in some leadership stuff by getting the girls to put on an exhibition of their blocks, maybe just to parents or maybe at a church hall or in a school. I'm not sure about the wood - not sure if e.g. pallet wood would be suitable.

I am a Brownie leader, and it can be really tough to plan a programme that is exciting for the girls, offers a variety of activities, keeps within the budget, gives opportunities for the girls to develop their skills as they get older, and helps to ease in the younger ones without scaring them off! We only have 10 weeks this term and have had to fit in time for my older girls to run a meeting, do activities about the promise for the new girls joining, have a promise ceremony for the new girls, and fit in activities we needed to do for some of the girls to finish their Adventure/Adventure On/More Adventures badges (which are like yearly progress badges with various requirements). So once we had done that, we only had a couple of weeks left to plan!!!
I feel a bit guilty that we have NO outdoor things in our plan this term, but we did quite a few last term, and will definitely do some next term. As a leader, there is a huge amount of work required to step foot outside with the girls. It is quite tricky to just change your plans if the weather is nice, which might explain why they didn't go out in September/October last year. When you are planning, you don't know that it is going to be nice then!
Unless your meeting starts and ends at the meeting place during your normal meeting time, we have to do permission forms for all girls under 18 (so even my Young Leader needs one). Once we step out of the meeting place, the adult to child ratios become mandatory, so we have to make sure we have the required number of adults. As this isn't required indoors we may not quite have enough there (say a leader is ill or something), which would mean organising someone at the last minute or just staying indoors. We also have to arrange a home contact if we use permission forms, which is why I ask for forms to be returned in advance. We also have to risk assess all our activities before doing them. Our district commissioner has to be informed when we go out too. All of that is required for EACH time we go out. I HATE dealing with all the permission forms myself - I had to send 3 out last week for some upcoming trips. So you can understand why leaders don't take the girls out every week, especially when we are normally having to deal with parents querying various things/losing things/not returning things on time on top of that!

My dd came home really upset last week. They had been making cookies yet because she and another girl had dropped flour on the floor (though had cleared it up) she wasn't allowed to bring her cookies home.

Wow, yeah that is pretty harsh, if we're cooking i generally expect at least one girl to drop flour or spill something, i might ask them to help clear it up but these things happen and there's no point punishing them for it.

Canoeing might be a cost issue but have you tried talking to the leader, maybe saying DD would like to do... and offering to organise it/help make up numbers for ratios?