could someone please explain dancing grades to me

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this is purely out of interest - my children are still young but I am curious how these intermediate, advanced and so on fit in with the grades in ballet.

I have noticed from people we know or on the internet that RAD and ISTD seem to overlap grades and these intermediate and advanced whilst some other boards like IDTA and BBO look like they do their grades before they do intermediate and advanced.

Am I right in thinking that these intermediate and advanced are teaching different skills then to the grades?

In RAD, the grades run from Pre-Primary, Primary, 1-8. The vocational grades (inter-foundation, intermediate, advanced and so forth) are grades which run alongside the normal grades for students wishing to pursue ballet more seriously (or as a vocation in later life) or just have the time and commitment to do so. Depending on ability and age, students could move into these vocational grades from about grade 4 but possibly more like 5 or 6. Lots of girls in my daughter's school for example are studying Inter-foundation (the first vocational grade) and the age range is huge and they are all in different graded classes. hth

ah ok - so they DO run along side.

all seems surprisingly complicated to me! I had just originally assumed it went preprimary, primary then grades 1-6 or 8 depending on the board and then suddenly I kept seeing these other ones and they weren't immediately obvious.

Thank you for explaining.

Pass standard is higher for the vocational exams. E.g. Intermediate Foundation might look like it's the same level as grade six because the steps and exercises are similar, but you're expected to show better technique and performance skills. The actual pass mark out of 100 is higher.

ah ok, thanks Julie. I am sure my 2 won't get to that stage (we are still at pre-primary to grade 1 here!)

Another thing to mention (with RAD at least) is that none of the graded exam syllabus up to and including Grade 8 has pointe work. Only the vocational grades have pointe, which starts in Intermediate Foundation. This is why the keener/more able students will often study both types of exam at the same time, and why the starting age is so variable, as each person will be ready to start pointe at a different time in their training.

I saw someone mention that there wasn't any pointe work in the grades for RAD on here at some point and that surprised me. I always assumed it would just automatically be included in the top couple of grades. They have to be teenagers ish to go on pointe don't they? so that their feet have stopped growing or something?

thanks.

IDTA has a pre-juvenile group award, then preparatory maybe (can't remember the names exactly). Then grades 1-5 (1-6 for ballet). I think technically intermediate, advanced one and two are vocational, but at my school you'd move onto those after the other grades.

The ones we did alongside were medals/gold bars, which were more performance based (just dances, no exercises).

Oh, there was Classical Award too, which had no pointe work. People tended to choose either intermediate and advanced or Classical Awards.

Pointe started in intermediate.

Funnily enough, I now do a lot of ballroom, and they don't have grades at all, just medals

And also explains how, DDs DF was able to continue progressing at ballet while arguing with her DM to be allowed to do pointe.

how can they make it all so complicated. really it could be so simple.

thanks everyone.

The RAD has made all the grade exams without pointe so they can be achieved all the way up to a high level for recreational dancers.

Pointework and the vocational grades demand a much greater level of commitment and technicality, and not everyone would want to do that (or maybe even have the right type of feet, turnout etc to be able to achieve that standard), the level of training is higher and needs several classes a week.

Also, there are quite a few teachers in small dance schools who don't teach beyond a certain level due to timetable constraints and they will often put on a separate 'pointe' class for the older teenagers after their grade class.

Pointe shoes are also stunningly expensive. Not all recreational dancers are likely to want the out lay, especially as many teen girls also who do higher dance grades, non vocationally, also do music and other hobbies.

yes I can see that makes sense with the pointe etc. We were in the dance shop when someone was buying pointe shoes recently and I was horrified at the price.

My Dd is 12, she has just (in November) taken her first vocational exam, RAD Inter Foundation. She is also taking (in March) her Grade 6 exam. Again RAD. My understanding is thus:

Grade exams are for anybody. At approximately age 9-13 (depending on how serious a dancer is, how their body is developing, how strong they are) girls at our dance school start to study Inter foundation alongside grades. (Usually at about grade 4/5). When the teacher deems they have developed enough strength they will be invited to purchase pointe shoes (Dd1 had her first pair for her 11th birthday. This may appear young, but she has danced from the age of two and does about 16 hours a week as a baseline in classes). They cannot take the inter-foundation examination until the term after they turn 11. Grades 6-8 are less technique driven and more performance based as far as I can tell. The vocational grades go: inter-foundation, intermediate, advanced foundation, advanced 1, advanced 2 and then after that there is the Solo Seal award.

Yes, pointe shoes do appear to be eye staggeringly expensive, when Dd1 had her first pair just over a year ago the initial outlay was about £90. That included toe pads (to put inside the shoes, she has gel filled "ouch pouch" ones at £20), a bag to keep them in and point shoe ribbons and suede, stick on ends (reducing the need for darning). The shoes themselves were about £55 but different makes do vary and Dd1 is now in need of her third pair a year after first going on pointe. This is because she does so much dancing and is very strong so tends to break them relatively quickly. Also pointe shoes have a rough lifespan of approx twenty hours of use.

thanks Dances.

I hadn't heard of Solo Seal award.

I did wonder why they weren't just higher numbered grades but all is becoming clearer now.

DD is 15 and doing her advanced foundation now. She does three ballet lessons a week 1.5 hrs each. Her feet are wrecked.

HSMMaCM - how much time a week does your dd spend actually on pointe in the classes?

3/4 hour pointe class on a Saturday morning, then maybe 10-16 mins in classes on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday afternoon ?

Mmmm - is she sure that her pointe shoes fit properly? It could be that another make or style would suit her better.

(sorry for being nosey!!)

My dd is 15 as well, and does a lot of pointework. It's taken her a while to find the 'perfect' shoe and she has no troubles with her feet at all. You can PM me if you like, rather than us hijack this thread...

PMd you

Have replied.

Incidentally, if anyone wants to know more about pointe or other ballet stuff, check out the 'Doing Dance' section of balletcoforum.com

It's all changed since I did it years and years ago!

I will impart from advice though re feet - soak in surgical spirit!

Dd1 does loads of pointe in a week and has never once had an issues. Very infuriating as I told her for the two years she was begging to go on pointe before she was allowed that she wouldn't like it cos it hurts. I got a withering look and the comment "not if your doing it properly". She can't wait to be old enough to dance on pointe in festivals. She did a solo at summer school on pointe and got such a buzz from it.

feel free to hijack - I find it all very interesting and will look up the dancing forum mentioned thanks.