Wrong body shape for dancing classes?

[Ziglinda]

I am interested to get some perspective on this. I organise extracurricular activities for my nieces. They are great girls and I'm keen to give them more opportunities. Their parents don't have money or time at the moment and are happy for me to do it. Both girls really want to do dancing. My hesitation is that both girls are quite self conscious about their body shapes. I'm concerned that dancing in front of a big mirror comparing their bodies to their class mates each week won't be good for them. I remember comparing my body to my friend's in the mirror during ballet class when I was 11 and realising my body didn't look 'right'. I gave up soon afterwards. I don't want the girls to go through that.

Both are slim and fit but are fairly short and muscly. The 12 year old says she doesn't like bring so 'rounded' and is showing some anorexic tendencies eg. skipping breakfast and lunch/ lots of talk about diets and fat.

I have been taking her to karate and she is now a junior brown belt. She's really good at it but wants to stop as she finds it boring and doesn't like the other people in the class. I would prefer them both to do karate as I've noticed a big increase in confidence in DN1 and it doesn't exacerbate body image problems. It's also cheaper than dancing and the location/class times are more convenient for me. However, I feel guilty at depriving them of the opportunity to do something they really want to do.

Their dad prefers them to do karate and their mum likes the idea of dancing but as I'm paying and will be taking the girls each week, they want to leave the final decision up to me. DN2 is quite interested in karate and I could probably persuade DN1 to keep doing it until she gets her black belt but I can't shake the feeling I should be supporting them to do something they are really passionate about. I'd be interested to hear some thoughts on this.

My DD does ballet and there are no mirrors.

But at 12 they may prefer doing something like modern/jazz dance or street dance, which isn't so body conscious.

If they have not done dancing before and one is now 12, this could be the bigger problem. They might be quite old for a beginners group. Why don't you look for modern dancing because honestly all shapes and sizes of girls do this and by not doing it you are confirming their opinion of thier bodies. In other words, being short with muscles bars you from dancing. It does not. Some dancing classes are for fun and others take exams. Fun might be the way to go.

Nothing wrong with karate either. Dancing is maybe better exercise though and more lively.

Hip hop might be good?

Are there any street dance classes near you?

I was also going to suggest different types of dancing, such as hip hop or street dance - body shape perception issues would really only be linked to the more classical types of dancing, I think (especially ballet).

I agree with Milly that they're quite old to have to join a beginners' class in things like ballet too!

Would it be possible to arrange a few trial lessons? Rather than just get one (free) trial, see if they can go for 3 or 4 weeks before deciding.

My 7yo has just taken up ballet at a very inclusive (not all that impressive results-wise) local dance school. They put her in with her age group, not with the 4yos. There are no mirrors. I had some complete beginners, teenagers, join my gr 4 class when I was little myself. So I think with the right, not too serious ballet school it would be fine.

Have you considered gym, cheerleading or baton twirling? They sound a good build for gym and round here there are recreational classes, an hour to 1.5 hours a week, right up to teenage years. It's not all uber serious, hours of training a week.

But bear in mind dance has a lot of hidden costs. Exams, show appearances and tickets, uniform add up massively.

Also came on to recommend streetdance - all shapes and sizes (including the instructors!) and suitable for all ages.

Ballet is probably not a great idea for those with anorexic tendencies.

Some studios will have mirrors whatever dance type you are doing . How about Tap or Jazz maybe. A lot of children take these up later and they are good for fitness whatever your shape.

Have the girls said what sort of dancing they would like to do?

I would be wary of ballet classes for them, myself, but look into another style of dancing as suggested above.

I can't speak for the UK, but here in Mexico ballet teachers can make some very dangerous comments about body size, unfortunately and, if DN1 is already showing signs of worrying too much about her body, this is definitely something you wouldn't want to risk.

One of my daughter's friends is chunky as a result of having tried too hard to slim, you might want to point things like that out to your DNs

Depends on the school - there are certainly larger girls who do ballet. But leotards are not helpful if you're not confident about yourself.

My dd does ballet, modern and hip hop and she has the body shape that you describe your dn as having. She isn't overweight at all, but is well built and muscular (she does martial arts too). If you ask her which of those are her favourite, she will say ballet every time. I think that ballet forms the base for all the other dances, not so much hip hop, but modern, contemporary and tap (which she starts next year).

I don't think that age 12 is too late. There is even an adult beginners class, so if an adult can start, a 12 year old can too.

I have sat through many competitions, and more times than I can remember, at prize giving the adjudicator will often say that she can tell if a dancer doing a modern piece, just does modern or if a contemporary dancer doesn't do ballet too, just in the way they hold themselves etc.

As was suggested, why not take them for a trial class and then they will see if its what they enjoy. There are so many dancing options, Spanish, jazz, tap etc...

I agree 100% about unexpected costs though... its not a cheap extra mural.. shoes, outfits, competition fees, make up, etc....

karate always looks dull. how about a different martial art? judo?

street dance is much more 'diverse' wrt body shape than ballet and more accessible for 12 year old beginners

Thank you so much for your posts. It's incredibly helpful to get some other perspectives. You've inspired me to look for other options beyond the dance school near their house. I've found another one in a church hall 10 minutes drive away that has hip hop classes for both their age groups on the night I'm free and also circus tumbling classes beforehand which I think they would love. I spoke to the manager of the school and she was really switched on about body image concerns. She talked about how they manage it and seems quite experienced at working with girls who struggle in that area. They don't do exams and it's quite a bit cheaper than the other school I looked at so it might be possible for the girls to do both the circus and hip hop classes. The 12 year old is keen to do hip hop. The six year old wants to do ballet but I think that's mainly because she isn't aware of other styles. The kind of music she likes to dance to at home is more hiphop.

I hadn't thought about the difficulties of starting dancing classes at 12. I guess I assumed she would be good at it because she picks up the karate routines so easily, can do the splits and seems like she's a natural. Trial classes is a great idea. I'm not sure about the difference between hip hop and street dancing.

If the girls like the classes, I'm wondering if I can use it to motivate them with their school work. Eg. "You can do the classes if you do extra maths homework." Or is that mean? The 12 year old is convinced she is no good at maths. I gave her a lot of extra help a couple of years ago and she caught up to her class but now she's struggling with fractions and is very hard to motivate. I'm wondering if doing something she really enjoys will help her in other areas without me putting extra pressure on.

Has anyone had any success linking homework progress with involvement in extra-curricular activities?

Mine do many many extra curricular activities and I have never once considered their body shape as an issue - I think you sound lovely but I am quite shocked that you would even feel their body shapes warrant a talk with the organiser. Let them do whatever they want!

and absolutely NO to the using classes as a way to get them to do their homework - extra curric is just that - extra. If it helps with confidence and self esteem then they are the right classes for your dns. THe homework is a seperate issue.

Yes Zig, but more with my other child. He does have an attention problem but from when he started doing kung fu we noticed a difference in his schoolwork. I think he also had quite a lot of pent up frustrations and he really has a good workout physically there. He can go and kick the bag and just get it all out. I cant really put my finger on the actual thing that made a difference (although I know that sounds odd) but its like he was just able to cope a bit better. Being a boy, I think a lot was that he knew how to defend himself if he got into a bad situation (as due to the lack of attention he had lack of self esteem).

My daughter, doesn't have an attention problem, but the kung fu helps her a lot with dancing, so she does extra stretching really. SHe has taken to the martial arts easily because of the dancing and the kung fu has helped her to move better (kung fu and karate are quite difference, what with body stances and movements) .

I found that nearly all the regulars in my dds dance class got really good marks in primary school, I'm sure it was because the classes improved their concentration.

No I really wouldn't link homework with the extra-curricular activity. If your DN1 is really struggling then all that will do is make her extra miserable, because she will feel as though she is being punished for something she is unable to do, rather than unwilling, and that will be Unfair.

However, if she's struggling with fractions at 12, then it sounds like she still needs some help with her maths comprehension - you say you've already helped her a bit, can you do so some more? Or could you perhaps run to paying for a tutor for her for a few sessions? Also, if she believes she's "bad at maths" then that alone is going to have a negative impact on her ability to grasp maths - so that belief could do with some work!

Please don't link it to homework. At some point they will just say "I don't care, I didn't want to go to dancing anyway" and then you are stuffed. Extracurricular stuff should be a release from school. Linking them is a bit like telling an adult they can't go to the pub if they don't hit a work milestone.

However, at 6 and 12 they are likely to be in different classes. Could you offer extra help with homework for one while the other is in class?

Circus skills sounds awesome, and you sound like such a lovely auntie. But don't link homework and after school activities. The only way I might permit it is if the class offers some sort of summer school or half term activities. Possibly, you could offer that as an extra treat if the older one works hard at school. But I wouldn't.

Thanks again for all the responses. I'm so taken with mumsnet- this has been really helpful.

Erin99, thumbwitch, pilotti - thanks for the advice. I've realised it's a terrible idea to link the homework to the classes - far too punitive especially when DN1's a bit fragile. I helped her with maths yesterday and found if I broke it down into very small chunks, with lots of encouragement, she started making progress and was more confident. I can see that threatening to deprive her of something wouldn't help her progress.

Pilotti - my post must have been confusing. I just checked in with the manager about the mirrors because of my concerns that the wrong kind of environment might exacerbate DN's slight anorexic tendencies. Her body shape is absolutely fine - she's fit and healthy. She just has a bit of obsession about trying to change her shape and make herself thinner which worries me. (She is already very thin)

Mexicanspringtime and murphys - great to hear about such positive responses to dance and martial arts classes. Very encouraging.

Quite a lot of dance classes are held in village hall type places, and there are usually no mirrors to speak of, if that helps.

Both my DDs do dance classes and I think they are a great way of keeping active and having fun. Some classes will be more serious than others with exams and competitions and the hip hop and circus tumble classes sound fab for your nieces as a starting point. Doing something outside of school that allows your nieces to have fun, make friends and build self confidence. This might not help directly with maths but the feel good factor will be of great benefit to them overall.