Does anyone here play the HARP ?

[SausagesAndBananas]

Dd has decided she wants to play the harp. This is not a recent thing, she has been asking for 2 years . We have agreed with her that she is now old enough so are trying to organise lessons (relatively easy) and an instrument (arrrrrrggggggh!).

Does she really need to have a £1200+ harp to play? She is 6 years old, is a complete beginner, and I fear she may change her mind when the reality of 10 minutes practice every other day starts to kick in.

On the other hand she is often quite set in her ways so probably will stick at it, in which case I fully accept that later on (and having shown some ability and commitment) she would need a decent (£££££££) instrument.

Is it possible to buy a harp that will be good enough for the next two years or so and that she could hopefully gain her Grade 1 and 2, without having to spend so much?

I really don't want to rent as that would cost about £300-£400 a year, without anything to show at the end of it.

You can buy a lever harp for anything upwards of £300. But you get what you pay for. My advice would be to avoid the really cheP ones, however pretty they might look. She could, however, begin on a small harp, e.g. 29 strings, potentially with levers only on F and B (you can add levers later) which would be a lot cheaper than a pedal harp. Seriously, ask teacher.

My super cheap instrument has lasted me a year, though the previous owner had it much longer. Time to upgrade... But I'm switching to wire harp which is a separate beast. My student instrument will be around £2k new, but sounds great.

Of the small, cheap things, harpsicles are okayish.

Apparently.

Round here there are "rent to buy" schemes for instruments. You pay a monthly rental fee, and if you keep the instrument until you've paid the full cost of it, itsr yours to keep. If your child gives up, you can return the instrument any time up to the point you've actually bought it.

The music school teacher said not to consider any below £1200. If that is what it takes then we will just have to try and work out how to manage it.

What really made me question it was that I learnt the piano on some dodgy, rescued before being thrown out for firewood, piano. It was perfectly ok for learning on for the first few grades. Surely at such a young age it is about learning hand positions, recognising which string is which, tuning it, reading music, developing practice habits and .... well actually I have no idea. This would be much easier if I could pay one myself already.

My sister learnt to play the harp at a young age and she would use her instructors harp to play on for the first six months of lessons (leaving it there), and then after that she was able to loan one of his (costs added into the lesson price), which my parents eventually purchased at a discounted rate. It was a Paraguian harp.

Hi, I'm a harp teacher. There are some good options for beginners actually although your school music teacher offers good advice when suggesting not considering buying a harp that is less than £1200. There are some really awful unplayable instruments on the market.

Try the clarsach society - www.clarsachsociety.co.uk
They hire harps at £25 per month but you have to join the society first.

Harpsicles are sold by Pilgrim Harps and can do to about grade 2 level. These are less expensive (£750) and the exception to the rule, but have their drawbacks.
Clive Morley Harps have a decent beginners lever harp for sale called the Hempson for £1400. Up you can also rent before you buy.

Beware of dodgy imported harps, e.g. The Early Music Shop own brand harps can be dreadful. If you have found a teacher I would think they will let you at least have a taster lesson and give you advice on how to proceed too.

Buying new can be a good option, as long as the harp is well looked after it will retain it's value.

My 9 year old recently started the harp after badgering for 2 years. We have started renting a new harp from Clive Morley Harps for £60 a month - not cheap and we are committed to a year. If we chose to buy at the end of the year 8 months rental will be credited I think. If dc wants to carry on I think we will buy it as it they seem to hold resale value.

Oh and also the harp teacher said that her very young pupils don't actually take grades until about grade 4 - their hands are too small for some of the technical requirements for the exams and by they time the hands are big enough they have moved beyond the early grade stuff.

And you need a huge car.

Haha agreed about the car! When my sister was learning and my parents wanted a new car they based their decision on the size of the harp

Oh dear, it looks as though we're going to have to work out how to find ££££. Trying hard to convince myself that will be the sensible option, but I still find it hard to accept that a beginner level instrument should need to cost so much and cheaper options are not possible.

Morley seem to have some finance options, including up to £2,000 interest free credit if you're buying for a child under 18. May be worth speaking to them?

You can use this for children:

www.takeitaway.org.uk

Interest free everything if the shop you want to buy from accepts it.

We have a longing for a harp here too but I have said not until Gr 3 piano has been achieved, not necessarily as in passing the exam as we probably won't take every exam but I would like my daughter to be playing Gr 3 pieces consistently well before we introduce something else instrument wise.

Part of my reasoning is very similar to the points in Silas' post. Our music teacher examines harp candidates amongst others and reckons that hand size/strength can be an issue before about 11. I know absolutely nothing about harps personally but respect our teacher's opinion.

Back again, I've been looking at various options. The take it away site looks very good, thanks for that.

Today's questions for you wise mners are

1. Are the Early Music Shop own brand harps really rubbishthen?

2. If I buy something like a Pilgrim £1200-1400 one, can I buy one online or do I have to see it in person at the shop? Bearing in mind I'm in the highlands and if I saw one in a shop it would just look like some pretty curved wood with several strings (to my untrained eye!)

Sausages...

To 1) Yes; I know because that's what I play and the only one I've used which was worse was from Gear4Music (don't go there... the soundboard pulled off in about 2 months). I expect the instrument to resonate... and it doesn't. The only reason I have it is that I also live in a stupid place (Jersey) and that it happened to be on sale second-hand for practically no money.

I'm looking forward to my newly built Irish harp with glee, but I will need to upgrade my lever harp because the wire will take me forever to learn (different technique entirely).

I don't think you need to see the actual harp but you do need some advice from the teacher to know what size to get.

We went to the harp teacher - tried out several of her harps, settled on a 34 string, I pointed to the style of her harps I liked the look of best and she told me the brand/ model and I ordered it. So once you know the size I think it is mainly looks at beginner level (I wanted a more contemporary looking one). There are different string types but I think children all start with nylon strings anyway.

Massive parcel arrived by parcelforce.

You need at least 34 strings for grade exams, certainly past grade 2, except potentially the Scottish Folk syllabus which allows for own arrangements. Nylon has a less 'rich' sound than gut with fewer overtones, but it is much more stable - doesn't go out of tune so easily, settles down quicker when you change a string, not so affected by factors like humidity or heat. At least, that's the fiddler talking, it may not be so obvious on a harp.

You do need to consider spacing and tension - either folk gauge, potentially with strings closer together, or classical.

That's really helpful, thanks. The teacher just said to either buy or rent a harp, no detail about size, strings or anything else.
Interesting to hear that she may be too small to do grades for a few years yet.

look on the website 'affairs of the harp' (google it) and there are second hand ones available, even some lever harps. The teacher might also know of other second hand places. Don't get one from eBay! But there are a few secondhand lists around.

Many, many moons ago, my concert harp (full pedal job) came from the small ads in a Welsh local paper....

Hi, I was in your situation a few years ago. We bought a camac harp from Telynau Vining Harps. It was a Hermine 34 string. It seems to be the favourite first harp where we are (central belt). They r really helpful and the harp is great, though my DS has seen a new harp that he has fallen in love with. Check out your local education authority to see if u can buy under the assisted purchase scheme and save the vat. We did and Telynau will let u buy that way, the place we r looking to buy our new harp from will also let up buy through the assisted purchase scheme. Good luck I hope u manage to find one for your DD.

oh I wish this thread had been going this time last year!

we were in a similar position to you, OP- in fact exactly the same- DD really, really wanted to play and we were completely in the dark as to finding a teacher and then an instrument

when we found the teacher, she directed us to Morley or Pilgrim etc, but it really wasn't within our means, especially as we didn't know whether she'd stick at it or not, and after much pondering, we went the cheap EMS route

now, a year and a grade on, we're looking at buying a Camac- either the Hermine or the ??Korrigan. The EMS one was ok for an absolute beginner but it became apparent pretty early on that we'd need to get a 'proper' one

That said, I'm not sure we wouldn't have gone the same route even if we'd known the EMS wasn't up to it. It's the not knowing whether they'll stick at it, really, isn't it. I had visions of a £2000 harp sitting in the loft, gathering dust with knickers and socks hanging off it...

ps good luck to your DD. I really REALLY love the harp- it's my favourite thing in the house (apart from the hamster)- it's beautiful

sometimes I sit at the bottom of the stairs and have a little weep listening to D practice

I would love to learn the harp. I can play the piano and flute and would love to learn the harp too.

Does anyone know, do fingernails have to be very short to play the harp?

Depends on the harp... For wire harp they should be long, which will be a pain for this fiddler. Primrose, come to Kilkenny next summer, you'll be converted. For regular lever harp or pedal, I don't see that they'd have to be particularly short because you play more with the side of your pads, not the tip. I.e. My violin calluses are in the wrong place so I still get sore fingers.