Would this timescale be mad for next grade (violin)

[anamenotanumber]

Ds is 9 and has been playing violin for about 2.5 years. His teacher is lovely but the slowest ever and has a reputation for being very, very plodding and cautious.

Ds likes the structure of doing grades and got much more interested when he started on grade 1 preparation. The teacher took three terms on this and they did no other pieces so it did get a bit dull although he didn't complain. He did well in the exam and then wanted to do and did a violin summer camp for a week of mornings as he is so happy when playing. The feedback from the camp teacher was very positive about how musical he is and how strong his sight reading is, and she is known not to say things for the sake of it, just to be kind.

Now they are working on grade 2 (since mid- July) and he had a few extra lessons so has made progress with the first two pieces. He has started annotating the last piece himself as he is desperate to move on it and really self motivated.

The scales are coming on. Dh is very musical and is helping him where he needs support. Some technical stuff needs work still.

Soooo...would we be mad to ask the teacher if he can do G2 in November? Ds is very keen and does lots of practice nowadays. Teacher said Spring or maybe summer if he doesn't practice enough but even Spring seems s-l-o-w for a motivated, musical 9 year old who has been playing this long.

Views please?

It sounds like it might be time for a new teacher. Grades are not the be all and end all, but it sounds like your son is keen to progress. Two terms just spent on exam pieces sounds very dull ...

That sounds very slow. My dd's teacher isn't going to get her doing the pieces until she is ready to do the grade, so she only has a term or so working on them (and doesn't get bored). There is absolutely no way he should be playing the same 3 pieces for a year. If nothing else you will be bored out of your mind with them!

Sounds to me like you need a new teacher tbh....regardless of how good or not your current one is she obviously isn't on the same wavelength as you/ds!! Do you have another teacher you could go to for an independent assessment of his standard?

It was three terms Floella not even just two.

He really loves the instrument and likes the teacher very much so I'm reluctant to change, plus the other one I know of who is good locally has a huge waiting list.

Can anyone come up with some wording so I can just ask the teacher if he can do it sooner without sounding pushy. Ds is really up for the challenge and I'm sure he can do it. Very musical 'loads of grades' dh says he thinks he can do it but probably wouldn't get a distinction if he did. Fine by me.

Some of the secondary schools round here also require a pretty high grade to get into orchestras and it would be such a shame for ds not to be able to do so if he wanted to because of this teacher being so very cautious.

Petra, the summer school teacher assessed him and was very positive about his ability/ potential but not about his bow hold and the way he had been taught...

He's doing Suzuki?

Does your current teacher enter many kids for exams?

No not suzuki.

The teacher enters kids but on a very slow timescale. The only exception is two parents I know who got on the case and insisted they do it quicker.

Ok if his bow hold is wrong you do need to switch teachers...my dd had been learning 5 terms with the wrong hold and it's taken 2 to fix....can you contact the summer school teacher for recommendations in your area? Where are you?

I will PM you Petra.

The summer school lady isn't replying to my email but might well be on holiday still. We are on her waiting list and high up so if someone drops out we are in.

In defence of the existing teacher, he is very good at ensuring children are learning to love the instrument rather than focusing on grades. That has succeeded but ds also wants to progress and again, we are concerned that when he goes to (selective) secondary the orchestras will be of a very high standard and there's no way he will get in on his current slow track! This would disappoint him I'm sure.

The overall timescale seems fairly reasonable to me (I teach violin), but what doesn't seem right is only learning the exam pieces for each grade. Your son should be learning lots of other music, hitting the appropriate level, and then learning the exam pieces fairly easily. It can still take more than a term to get them up to examination/performance standard, mind. The term after an exam, we don't touch exam material, but we do work towards the next level with other repertoire.

By timescale I mean 'three years for grade 2' is not ridiculously slow for the violin, because I think two years to grade 1 is still in the realms of normal.

I'm with several here who are urging a change of teacher. Really, she sounds terribly cautious, which is more about her needs and comfort than responding to her talented, motivated pupil. Also, the fact that your DS technique is faulty would really send alarm bells.

Please. Change.

and Good Luck.

I won't comment on technique without seeing a student - sometimes things are wrong, and sometimes teachers just do slightly different things. For the bowhold, the key thing is no tension - thumb should be curved to make a circle with middle finger (or still curved but placed under the frog, which is how mine begin if they're young), little finger should be near the others, not out on the nut, bow should be held but not gripped. Hence pencil practise. Beyond that, it gets a bit personal.

I will look tomorrow, thanks julie.

anamenotanumber, my dd was doing violin for two years and her teacher is really really strict and not after grades. Dd did grade 1 after 18 months, this March, so quite long, but will be doing grade 2 in November. So it is by all means possible. And her teacher gives her other staff too-not only grade book, though they play all pieces from the grade book. My dd is few years younger than your ds, surely musical 9yo can do it too? Agree with previous advice-change the teacher... Dd had a piano teacher and liked her but progress was too slow so I changed her and have no regrets. Dd had her piano grade in 6 months after changing the teacher.

My Y3 starters nearly all take Prep Test in the 3rd term and Grade 1 in the 4th. Then if they practice (I have an inventive scheme that asks for 15 mins average per day) they generally take a Grade a year after that.

DS wasn't impressed when I told him his Grade 4 was in 3 weeks and he had 2 new pieces to learn but it was a good experiment for him! He was already playing well at that level so the pieces were readable for him.

Our Suzuki teacher didn't do exams but was happy to recommend another teacher who did to do lessons alongside hers, that's why I asked if you had the same method.

So it seems we are stuck with this teacher for a little longer as the other one is busy but might have a place in a few weeks when she knows her schedule better.

Can you pick ABRSM dates so we could go for the end of the period this Autumn (think it is Nov-Dec) rather than the start?

next question - how can I word my 'demand' to the existing teacher that we try for this grade in Nov/Dec not later?? Their view was March when we asked originally and ds did ask if he could do sooner and was told no it should be March.

"next question - how can I word my 'demand' to the existing teacher"

With enormous care! If you go to the ABRSM Forums' Teacher subforum (www.abrsm.org/forum/), you can find examples of teacher's responses to just such requests. As you and the current teacher aren't on the same hymn sheet, you need to find one whose judgement you trust - then leave it up to them as the professional. Are you confident that the new teacher will be[do] what you want?

I agree with all those above (as a non-expert mind you) that only doing exam pieces is unhelpful in all ways. But there is nothing wrong with where he is given length of time learning. String instruments are slow progress

Honestly, just go to a different teacher.

We had a "plodding" teacher for DD2, and I stuck with her, thinking she knew best, until one term when DD2 learnt no new pieces at all, but revised some she had learnt a year earlier. This was seemingly because the teacher was busy preparing other more advanced pupils for an end of year concert, and also wanted to bring up other children to my DD's level, so they would all be at a similar level. So, my DD sort of fell through the cracks.

We moved to another teacher, and she did an exam about a term and a half later, missing out a grade altogether.

BUT, I did do lots of research into a good teacher. I asked a parent of a girl who I know who is a music scholar at DD2's school for a recommendation, and then asked the music teachers at her school about him, as well.

anamenotanumber, can you just google for a new teacher? Or use some sites, like musicteachers.co.uk for example?
Regarding the trust issues - trust your feelings! I had all these considerations with piano teachers (I gave you one example above, in fact dd had 4 piano teachers in 2 years), and still confident that I was right as I know what is the best for my dd. Fortunately we have this brilliant violin teacher so I had some benchmark :) I still feel it is not a perfect match with teacher number 4, but decided to leave it for the time being. Music is too expensive and time consuming thing to do, therefore teacher should match your requests :))))

I would change teachers too. Horses for courses and all that. Your DS wants to progress through the grades and is prepared to put the effort in and enjoys it - a teacher that is holding him back is going to spoil the enjoyment for him and turn him off playing. That is the crime here, not how long it takes to pass the grades (IMO).

9yo passed G1 (in the last round of exams, with distinction) and is doing her G2 in Nov - her choice entirely (both to learn & to take exams) and her teacher said she would expect her to get a distinction in that too judging on how well she is already doing. She is doing the same with piano as well.

She loves the lessons, but doesn't especially enjoy practising at home, she needs to be 'reminded', she will do it once 'reminded' and doesn't need nagging (else she would stop going as it's her choice to do it) whereas your DS is practising a lot by choice! Don't let his teachers attitude spoil it for him.

The other thing you might want to consider (if he isn't doing it already), is taking the Music Theory exams, if he carries on he will need to have done this and my theory is they might as well start sooner rather than later and have to 'catch up' on the exams. She loves the theory part of it and does that at home without even having to be 'reminded' - weird little creature :)

anamenotanumber, yes, I think you can pick the date with abrsm, or at least try to change it to a late date if needed, I had such experience.

Oh I know I'm going against the grain but I want to give the current teacher one last chance. So I do want to at least try and persuade her to do it earlier.
That way if it's a no they will also understand why we are switching.

I know grade progress is slower with strings but equally I'm conscious that ds will dearly want to join an orchestra in year 7 and won't be able to at this rate at the schools he might go to.

I checked when he started and it was actually 2.5 years/ 8 terms between starting and doing grade 1. He did three full terms of prep for it. That said before this school year and him starting g1 prep he only practised about 2 or 3 times a week. The teacher has other pupils who go even sloooooowwwwwer and two who have gone faster - one very talented indeed and practises for two hours a day by choice and the other I'd guess the parents pressured the teacher as they know the teacher personally or maybe he is super-talented too.

Ds IS fairly talented but not destined for any conservatoire so it does seem terribly slow.

So I think I will ask the teacher if he can try for Nov/ Dec and explain re the orchestra when he is at secondary, him being keen to do it then and committed etc. And if he thinks I'm a pushy, annoying parent, so be it...

he/ she mix up. Trying to disguise the details in case they read this section!! Got myself in a muddle!!

anamenotanumber, I think it sounds like a good plan! Explain about orchestra (this way you do not look like a pushy mum who is interested in grades only). And if it does not work...
Do you by any chance know how long it took to take grade 1 that talented child who practiced two hours a day?
(and btw if it is only exam pieces it must be very boring... dd may practice up to one hour but it is only because she usually has about 3-7 different pieces+scales+finger practice)

I think the fact he only did the exam pieces/ scales for three whole terms and still didn't get bored sort of shows how committed he is to it!

When he plays he really listens to how it sounds and concentrates hard on self-improvement. He seems to care a lot about it. (Do I sound stupid? Maybe all kids do this?)

Anyway, I will have the chat with the existing teacher. Good to have a plan.

I will ask super-talented child's mum when I see her. She is very, very talented not just locally good iyswim. Quite lovely to hear her play sometimes when I have had the chance.