How do you see a private music teacher's role? As an experienced professional or someone who is there to do what you tell them?

[Oen1]

I'm a private music teacher. I praise pupils when they've worked hard, when they've exceeded my expectations for the week, when they've got a particularly tricky bit which they've struggled with for weeks in the bag. Obviously, the younger the pupil, the more you have to praise e.g. first lesson we learnt the first note - if they can remember where that note is in the second lesson they get praise. As they progress and mature the amount of praise gets spaced out a bit more and only genuine achievements or consistency gets praised.

I do not give out praise for non-practisers or for those who only practice the bits that are fairly easy, avoiding the bits that are more difficult. With these, we go over those particular sections in the lesson, I tell them if they are improving and they then go away to (hopefully) practice those sections. If they come back the following week having avoided that section again and completely forgotten how it goes, we obviously have to go over it again.

Now, what I've noticed over the 20 odd years that I've been teaching is that parents' attitudes have changed. Years ago, I could say to the parent that their child needed to practice more (or just practice full stop) and the parent would back me up.

More and more, I'm finding that parents are blaming their children's lack of progress on me. I'm not encouraging enough, I don't praise enough. As I said above, I praise where it's due. I hold student concerts where everyone gets the opportunity to play, not just my high achievers which, in my mind anyway, offers encouragement to all levels. I'm expected to end each lesson with a summary of what was good about their playing and ignoring the bits that they haven't worked on.

So what I want to know is how many of you think that I should be telling the serial non-practisers or the ones who avoid the difficult bits, how amazing they are? I certainly won't do this with my own children - they get praised for effort, but if they're avoiding doing something that they don't like then they are told to just get on with it if they want to do the exam, grading, move on the next level etc. I will assist them when necessary.

Should we be telling all children that they are wonderful and talented for just breathing? Isn't that just setting them up for a massive fall when they reach the real world (or even just comprehensive school)? I see more and more parents running themselves ragged driving their children around to numerous activities (2 or 3 on a school night) because their children "thrive" on it. Most of these children look exhausted and far older than their years to my eyes, but if the parents can't see it, who am I to say anything - much better left to grandparents or close friends to tell them.

So what do others think? Are we mollycoddling our kids too much?

FWIW I'm an older mother whose own parents made it quite clear that I would only achieve anything in life through my own hard work, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

Sounds like a lot of my students! Been working on Skyfall with one - can't give you the arrangement as we re-arranged the too-hard so-called "easy piano" version at the piano, chopped it up and spliced it together again.

I learned guitar for a year at secondary school and had a teacher who constantly told me I was doing brilliantly when I really wasn't. Consequently, I didn't bother to practise. My piano teacher was old-school and quite scary. I didn't dare not practise! When she told me I was doing well, however, I believed her! Failed grade 3 guitar but went all the way to grade 8 with piano.

OP, I just think it's the way things are now, and I think its's a bit crap. DTD1 learns piano and I want her to make progress so I expect her to practise and I expect her teacher to tell her when (and only when) she's done well. I think it's the same in mainstream education though - the GCSE Performing Arts results will be my responsibility and if any child does not do as well as they expect to, I will have to explain why. I'm hoping that the girl who failed to turn up to the exam takes responsibility though.

Keeping to the title - I see my dcs music teachers as professionals but I see the relationship between them and myself as a partnership, exactly as GooseyLoosey has said.
I have sought out very good teachers for my girls and I respect their professional judgment BUT I know my children, their temperaments and what is going on in their lives which inevitably affects what is happening with them musically.
As Sringchicken said, I'm not an expert, I'm not even musical but I would like my view to be considered.
So, when dd1's very good violin teacher felt that she wanted to wait another term to enter dd for her last exam because she thought the extra time might be useful to consolidate scales I disagreed. Teacher knew pieces were very good and other elements were fine so when I considered that dd would be tired by the end of the summer term because of a very rigorous schedule plus probably being bored of playing the pieces I suggested that she sit the exam earlier. This was carefully considered but I know my child and I knew our schedule. Teacher did not have a problem and i think had she had real concerns she would not have entered her. Dd got her highest exam mark.
I am very respectful of teacher's opinions but I think it would be wrong not to consider the parent's view in certain circumstances.

OP I teach secondary music and piano. I would agree with you with regard to both settings.

A professional who will work within guidelines I set down, tbh.

I don't interfere at all with lessons and I don't expect unearned praise but I have laid down that dh is not to do exams as I don't want that approach for him, for my own good reasons.

Joan,

As a teacher, I'd say that that kind of 'guideline' is fine and can easily be agreed upon. I have students who definitely want to do exams, students who hate exams and certainly don't want to, students doing medals, students doing classical, jazz, contemporary, folk... according to their interests, students doing hours of practise and students doing 10min 3 times a week... All of this is discussed regularly with parents and with students, even the youngest. They get to change their minds, so if they've said no exams but then want to do them, they can. If the setup changes and they have more homework, I'll expect less practise (but still some!). And so on. Communication is key.

What I don't like is when the parent insists that Johnny learns this piece which is way to hard, or that Tarquin is entered for this exam when he's clearly not ready, or when parents think they know how to teach violin better than I do when they've never picked one up ;-)

I am one of those people who have never picked up a musical instrument, but several years down the line I definitely know what I do and do not want from teachers.

What I do want is a teacher who has some structure to how the child's learning should progress, rather than just being told to try this or that tune.

I do want to be told specifically what the child needs to practise in order to improve and to be set practices in which they can work on these.

It is no use saying to me that the intonation or rhythm needs work. I know nothing about music and unless either me or my child are told how to improve I won't know how to help. It may seem obvious to teachers how to count bars with semi quavers, but it is not a knowledge people are born with.

I do not want my child to be told they will never reach a very high standard. Can you imagine how hard it is to get a child to practice after that?

If doing it again, I would certainly feel over 3 years to attain grade 1 was far too long.

If you have pupils who you are no longer inspiring to practise, perhaps it is time to get them to try another teacher.

Expecting an hour's practice a day from a busy teenager with GCSE coursework to do, who has only been learning for six months, is unrealistic. Expecting 15min five times a week is realistic and 15min of constructive practice (rather than just playing) can go a long way. Quality is more important than quantity. I say this as someone who spends a lot of time playing music but doesn't really practise much these days.

Three years to grade 1 may be realistic, depending on the age of the child when they start and the instrument. I'm working on an average 'plan' of five terms/two years to grade 1 if they start at 6 or 7 years of age. They could pass it sooner - if we just rote learnt the pieces and didn't worry about musicality, understanding or correct technique. The ones who start younger will take... no idea. I have 3yo pianists, so maybe four years... and they'd still be young so I don't know if I'd enter them.

Besides which, exams are just landmarks on the musical journey. We cover a lot of repertoire apart from exam pieces. We work on aural and musicianship skills, and theory. We compose together. We play ensemble music. We have fun.

I think there are realistic and unrealistic parents, but there are also competent and incompetent teachers. It is impossible to see from such a thread which are which.

If a teacher is saying, they should do 10, 20 minutes a day to improve this or that aspect of their playing and this is precisely how they should spend that time that, to me is good teaching. It is then my own fault if I'm not following this.

When a parent is finding youtube lessons more useful it is time to swap teachers.

I would be suspicious of a teacher who did not want to put a child in for exams.

Totally agree with sitting down with parent and child agreeing goals. I played the clarinet up to grade 4. When revising for standard grades and highers (which didn't include music) the last thing I needed was more stress from my clarinet practice. I wanted to be good enough to play 3rd or sometimes 2nd clarinet in our school wind and and some help mastering those pieces for the Christmas concert etc. I was not going to practice every day.

I enter some and don't enter others. It depends on age, personality and what they want.

Grade 8 music is becoming just another tick box on the university enterance form for many MC parents.

You shell out the money, your DC does minimum work and you get the tick.

No matter your DC doesn't actually particularly like music and won't ever play again.

It must be very frustrating at times for their teachers realising all their pupils want is a bit of paper.

I'm certain DFs think I'm a bad mother letting my classically academic DD2 fail grade 1 piano and give up.

DD1 sings because she loves it, is good at it and willingly gives up other things for choir practice.

She's had the same teacher since primary and is now 16, so they have a balance sorted between singing, concerts, GCSEs and DDs other hobbies.

She wouldn't get to grade 8, although I'd like her to do 5 theory and get 6. Exams were never the bee all and end the confidence performing gives a socially inept dyslexic was.

As for DD2, she found her love, it's doing gymnastics, which she oractices for hours without ever being told to.

I'm not musical at all.

I see dd's clarinet teacher as a professional.
I rarely see or speak to her tbh though ( maybe once or twice a term) ...she writes messages in dd's notebook for books to buy etc. I just kinda think it should be a relationship for dd to handle without meddling from me with my musical ignorance. It all sounds amazing to me when she plays so I just encourage (as you do).

Dd does do exams... I leave it up to her and her teacher to decide if she is going to do it. She is 11 and I just think she needs to take ownership of that herself. She has just done her grade 5 exam. She said she wasn't going to do it this year and would wait until she started secondary school and then all of a sudden changed her mind.

Dd practices a lot .... It's fun for her . If she stopped practicing or seemed reluctant to play or go to lessons I would stop them... As I have done with other activities. Music lessons are quite a big stretch for us expense wise tbh... And it's sometimes a struggle to find the money.Dd knows this.... I would not be encouraging her do it if she didn't love it or if I had to nag her to play.

I started out with a 'nice' teacher and got up to about grade 4. I had to move on when she got pregnant and went to someone far stricter. I then realised that the first teacher had basically taught me rubbish technique (or rather hadn't picked up on things I was doing wrong), and I pretty much had to relearn most of it. Some of my technique still isn't what it should be 20 years down the line, and it annoys me a fair bit. Bad habits are very hard to get out of.

Anyway, I actually enjoyed lessons with the stricter teacher more. I got better much quicker. If I hadn't practised he would pick me up on it. (He has got rid of pupils for not practising enough!) And when I did get praise it actually meant something.

I'm sure some people would find this an awful way to teach, but it delivers results, and doesn't give pupils false impressions as to how good they are or what they need to do to progress. He does make it very clear what he expects from pupils, and if they aren't willing to then they can go elsewhere.

if I am paying for my child to do an activity then I expect my child to put in the effort required otherwise I am wasting my money and they are wasting everyone's time. Therefore working on that basis I would expect if they are being lazy or not trying then the activity teacher should bring this to their attention and to my attention. It is our responsibility as parents to ensure the child learns to do the relevant practice assuming of course the information required is provided which you are doing.

I would expect to be able to agree with a teacher though things like 'x doesn't want to take any more exams, would prefer to learn different styles of music or whatever'. I gave up piano when I was 14 because my piano teacher couldn't cope with my parents and I having asked if I could stop doing exams and random bits of classical music I had never heard before and didn't like and learn jazz, swing pieces etc. basically to play to enjoy not play to endure. I have barely touched the piano since because the woman put me off playing so much (she was AWFUL and my first piano teacher had been so wonderful when I was little - such a shame). She also struggled with my inability to sight read (one of my reasons for wanting to stop exams) and the fact I played by ear but hey that is another story.

so no I think you are right, parents and society now are far too soft and I don't go for this 'praise, praise praise' thing. funny how before all that started children behaved well at school on the whole and generally better in society and since this 'don't tell people off you might squash them' attitude we have a lot more problems, a lot more disruption in the classroom, more useless articles floating around who can't commit to working or putting in any sort of effort.

learning to work hard, that effort affects output and that you should always try your best is one of the most important lessons in life.

To come back to this, I read an article recently (forgotten where now sorry) that stated that for the majority of children false or over the top praise didn't make much difference - there were differences, but not huge. The only type of child who did well with over the top praise were those with very high self esteem.

So, from what I could gather from this article, the parents who praise, praise, praise their offspring for not very much, letting them know how wonderful they are, build up their self esteem. And so those children then have to have continued praise from everyone even when they're not putting in much effort and producing shoddy work, and then can't handle someone being truthful (or just someone who isn't prone to praising averageness - if that's a word?).

It seems to me that there are many parents adopting this approach these days, especially the parents of the child that prompted me to start this thread.

JulieMichelleRobinson, you said "Three years to grade 1 may be realistic, depending on the age of the child when they start and the instrument. I'm working on an average 'plan' of five terms/two years to grade 1 if they start at 6 or 7 years of age.... The ones who start younger will take... no idea. I have 3yo pianists, so maybe four years... and they'd still be young so I don't know if I'd enter them."
May I ask you please?
-what exam marks these young students of yours have?
-what is the point in such lessons?
If 3yo pianist takes 4 years to prepare for his first exam, would not it be cheaper and more reasonable to start at 5 or 6 and to do his exam in 1 or 2 years?

Worriedandlost,

Music is not about exams. Yes, you can save money by starting at 6 or 7. The same goes for ballet, or swimming, or any other activity. You can also save money by not doing exams, fwiw.

You can spend a year prepping a 3yo for grade 1 and he will pass it if he's confident enough. He will have learnt everything by rote, practised for hours a day, possibly, and not understand what he is doing.

Or you can teach a 3yo about musical concepts, develop his literacy, numeracy and fine motor skills, work with patterns, learn about one-to-one correspondence and so forth. My youngest students graduate from Wunderkeys without knowing any tunes but having learnt so much! They also have a pretty good technique for people with very small hands since I insist on proper posture and legato playing. I also don't charge any more than most of the Kindermusic programmes out there for these lessons, which I offer during the day at 1/2 of my usual rate, and they suit different children (I have a couple who do both group classes and the piano classes, though).

Umm... I also wouldn't but a 6yo in for an exam. Oh wait... I did enter a 6yo for prep test on piano, and another for two music medals on violin (they both started this year). But they're both very mature for their age.

My marks are frankly none of your business, but I have yet to have a student score less than a merit. More importantly, my exam candidates have come out with marks and comment sheets that matched my predictions and my comments in their lessons.

Seriously, music is not about exams.

JulieMichelleRobinson I am aware that music is not just about exams, but you wrote about exams, hence my questions.

Ok, if you charge lower rates that are similar to kindermusic then it makes sense otherwise I would expect teacher to advise me not to waste my time and money and to go somewhere like baby music groups. Which basically majority of the teachers I came across to do, they just do not accept someone younger that 4 (in case of violin), or 6 (in case of piano), or 7-8 (in case of singing).

Please do not be offended by my question about exam marks, I am actually not after YOUR pass rates, I am more interested in the trend for younger students, as my dd had 2 grades in piano and 1 grade in violin by 6.5yo, and two of her friends had 1 grade in piano (one at 6, another at 6.5). And of course none of them started at 3yo! In spite of different teachers, home support and attitude towards practice they all have pretty small results variation in piano (and dd has huge difference between piano and violin marks), so I was just curious whether age and type of instrument count more than I thought they do. Problem is of course that everyone seems to start music lessons much later and there is no one to ask or compare.

Worriedandlost,

Sorry, I was being a bit defensive, but hey...

Apparently somewhere out there a 3yo passed grade 1, went on to grade 3 at the age of 4 and already has a recording contract. I feel sorry for the poor child.

There are lots of baby music groups in my area, of varying qualities, and two of my students were going to those as well. In fact, I'm friends with the people who run several of them and actively promote the groups - but the style and the timetable doesn't suit every family.

Just FYI, it's also not unusual for violinists to start as young as 2yo with the Suzuki method. That's why Stentor make 1/64 sized violins. On average, Suzuki teachers in the UK seem to expect a child starting under the age of 6 to reach approximately grade 4 (end of Suzuki book 3) by the age of 11. There's a lot of focus on technique in the beginning - correct bowhold 10,000 times, for example!

JulieMichelleRobinson, I know about Suzuki method but I am a bit conservative therefore not interested (though Suzuki book 1 has great pieces to play :)). I was talking about classical training.

Julie, strange how you downplay the importance of exams yet your sharp reaction to the question of grades

Why is that odd? If you want to take exams you shouldn't be aiming just to sneak a pass... But to play as well as you can, whatever that level is. But you can do well by spending a year on the pieces, or by really being at the technical and musical level required. I hate teaching to the test, that's all.