Gymnastics - so if you're not in the squad, it's basically a waste of time?

[Schulte]

So, bear with me. DD (nearly 7) has been doing gymnastics at a supposedly good club for over 3 years now. She has badge 6, 5 and another one for strength and flexibility, but she can't do a cartwheel and she says they have never practised cartwheels or handstands, and they don't even do forward rolls either (although I believe she can do one but not very well). I am not quite sure WHAT she does as we are not allowed to watch, but I think they do a bit of bouncing on the trampoline, a bit of hanging off the bar, and walking backwards and forwards on the beam and that's it.

The coach once told me that the only way they ever get to compete is if they get invited to the squad, and seeing as she's about to turn seven and hasn't been asked I guess she won't ever make it into the squad. So she'll basically keep bouncing on the trampoline and walking up and down the beam forever and never learn any proper gymnastics skills?

As an ex gymnast myself I find the whole thing incredibly frustrating. I started late (I was 8) but learned quickly and everyone trained together for competitions, twice a week - there was no such thing as a squad, we all had a go at learning all the moves and it was such fun and the competitions were just an amazing experience. I am very sad that DD will miss out on learning all those moves just because she is not squad material?

Please someone tell me there is a life somewhere between this dull beginner level and squad where you can actually just do the sport and have fun with it? It seems hard to believe that there isn't?

Just spotted this thread (well Picture pointed me here)

I just started a thread about gymnastics over here - could anyone help either there or here?

Sorry for the hiJack

I think that for developing strength you need to look for other sports. For example many of Britain's top gymnasts did not specialise in gymnastics at a young age. Often other sports like swimming, football, karate, dance, running about the part build strength. Many olympicans excelled at lots of sports when they were young before they made the decision to specialise.

Really tired name me one british female gymnast that started later than 7 years old. My DD at 6 was considered too old by one club but was taken on by another and has caught up training 15+hours a week in the holidays. If you do gym at the elite level with 15-20+ hours a week you have no time for any sport. I wish I had known this a year ago.

Six live - I thought Beth Tweddle was the example of someone who didn't start until they were 7 but I could be wrong.
I know of a girl who didn't step foot in a gym until she was 7 who passed her compulsory 2 in age.
Although they are exceptions rather than the rule.
But there is a middle ground - rec's got its place in the system and makes it accessible for all. Floor and vault comps give the chance for competiting and challenge. I think it can be enjoyable at all levels. It doesn't have to be about making to the top.

My daughter is 5 and that seems be the age they start encourage more participation leading to squads.

I dont particularly want her doing lots of hours every week at a young age though!!

"Really tired name me one british female gymnast that started later than 7 years old"

Beth Tweddle didn't start gymnastics until she was 7. She's GB's greatest gymnast of all time.

Paula Thomas didn't start until she was 7 either and she competed for GB in the Sydney Olympics.

dd's gymnastics coach started gym at 7 and completes in national competitions. I am not sure if she counts an elite gymnast though. She did a lot of ballet and competitive swimming before she took up gym though.

I think that top gymnasts who start after the age of seven have done something else to build up the sheer strength and subtleness required.

sixlive What are you hoping your child to achieve and how much are you prepared to sacrifice? China produces some of the best gymnasts in the world, but they are prepared to abuse their children in a way that we would think is unthinkable to achieve their goal of a gold medal.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/9441823/Children-as-young-as-four-undergo-gymnastics-and-swimming-training-in-China.html

Thank you confirming that 7 is the latest for elite which is what I've said but some clubs won't look at girls that old as elite grades start the year you turn 8. You can compete at national level at elite or national grades - they are different. I wish in the UK there wasn't such pressure to start so young as it puts so many girls off and loads of squad gymnasts give up. I also wish there were more competitions for recreational gymnasts like the US. Most gyms in the UK are packed with large waiting lists, demand is outstripping supply but that does mean that some gyms are not providing a good standard of gym for rec.

I think the middle ground the OP talks about exists - well it does in my experience. Perhaps we are fortunate in our area? But I don't think it's a case of elite or nothing.
My eldest had the opportunity to do 1 floor & vault and 2x4piece comps last year. The comps were no pressure, lots of fun. She doesn't do regional or national grades. She's at a nice level where it's fun, challenging but lets her have other hobbies and a life outside of the gym.

Dd2 is a nice little gymnast. She does just 1 1.5 hour rec class per week. Club would love her to do more, they say she has great potential, but are encouraging rather than pushing her to do more.

There are clubs out there where rec gymnasts can accomplish a lot.

Dd's club is lovely - they are a club with a very strong elite program, but they also do lots of rec classes, and toddler classes too! The recreational classes are very well structured - 20 mins warm up, and then a rotation of apparatus. Dd at 10 is never going to be a competitive gymnast, but she can do a decent forward/backward roll, 3 types of cartwheel (normal, one where you change direction - ie turn 180 degrees during it and one-handed), round off, splits etc. She is working on backwards walk over - she can do the first bit, but can't kick back over yet. She can do handstand into bridge and stand up again, and yesterday they were doing flips off the trampoline.

I love their club - it's always encouraging, takes children from where THEY are, and pushes them as much as they want pushing. As soon as you start looking at competitions the time commitment shoots up, but I'm v happy with 45 mins a week, as she does school gym, swimming, netball etc. as well.

My dd2 and ds are at a BG gym club.
Dd2 is 10yo and has been doing it since she was 4yo. (but is missing her hand so can't do everything)
Ds is 6yo and has done 2 terms.

There is a squad, but not a terribly competitive one, I think the maximum hours done (by older ones, we're talking age 11+) is 3 hours. They do a few displays and a few competitions. There's a club championship that's open to everyone once a year.

They start off with a warm up all together then split into ability groups which take it in turns on aparatus. They do 3 different areas each week, and continue the next week with what they didn't do. So there's trampette, vault, bars, floor, trampoline and those dangly ring things. Most do 1hr a week.

Having just had the club championships (age 4+), all dc could do a forward roll. Almost all could do a bridge (although some of the younger ones needed reminding about their arms). By about 6yo over half could do a convincing cartwheel.
They're very good at integrating dd2. She doesnt get any special dispensation for her missing hand mostly, and what extra help they give is done as to what she wants and very quietly. They did give her extra time to get her doing a cartwheel, which she now can just about do.

My sister started gymnastics when she was 3, and could do bridge-to-walkovers by the time she was 4 I'm sure of it. She was doing one- and no- handed cartwheels and flips by 6 or 7. Granted, she was exceptionally talented (there was talk by the time she was 8 of seeking International level coaching) but the rest of the class, doing the same things, wasn't much older than she was.
I would imagine that the guidelines to what small children are allowed to do has changed in 30 years, the way it has with ballet, but I doubt it's changed so much that a 7 year old can't do a cartwheel. (As for strength, she recently beat a 19 year old male Marine in a pull-up competition so that early training certainly didn't do her any harm. )

I am a gymnastics coach and posts like yours make my blood boil.They clearly see their rec gymnasts merely as a way of bringing money in and that's it.Every club should be offering competitons and displays to children of all levels and ages.I would very strongly advise you to look at different clubs
However the things you mention her doing have their place.Bars requires strength and I do start my bars session with children of your daughetrs level with 'hanging on competitions' in various shapes/ monkey walks from side to side across the bars (as well as pull up and leg lifts when they are ready) , before we move on in the session to working on our bars skillss.Ditto with the beam.They do need to build up a high level of confidence on the beam and this comes from spending time up there
Trampolining again strengthens legs and core.Things that seem futile to you , are most likely 'disguised' conditioning
That said my 4 yr old group who started in September can all forwards roll and kick up to handstand now we dio this every single week, as well as teh basics of vaulting and I am a real stickler for getting these basics right from the very beginning.
We spend 30 mins of a rec session on warm up stretching shapes(dish, arch, bridge, front and back support, japana pike fold) and 'fun' conditioning activities each week and this makes a big difference to the childrens progress.LOts of clubs won't do this and then the children's bodies aren't strong and flexible enough to progress

Oh and at 7 she is not past it as far as squads are concerned !!!!!!!

Where we are there is a middle ground, with opportunities to compete at recreational level. I would be looking for a different club, one that has opportunities for kids on all levels and stages. My DD's club is great, friendly and supportive and they have several levels: the beginners recreational, intermediate/advanced recreational who compete at regional recreational level, and the elite gymnasts who train crazy numbers of hours a week.

I think most of the kids who stick with the recreational class for a few years will get the chance at least to take part in two competitions per year, the club championships and a large local open competition. Even my DS, who did gym for a while, loved it but wasn't very good at it, took part in the internal championships and had a great time.

Yours sounds a bit like the first club my DD went to, which had a squad and recreational, but only the squad did competitions. DD joined it the club age 7, and was put in the competitive squad, where the training was excellent and very cheap as it was heavily subsidised by the rest of the club. After about six months we decided we did not want to commit to the hours of training expected by the club (all day saturday and several hours several evenings a week), so we asked for her to be moved to the recreational group. The recreational classes were really awful, overcrowded, relatively expensive, and and there would have never been any chance to compete at all or do any displays except by moving back to the squad and training all those hours.

DD loves gymnastics and her club, and really enjoys competing, but she also loves lots of other things and wants to have time for those too. She is 10 and trains 3 hours / week, last year took part in 3 regional competitions (and the internal championships) and two displays. In a few years time she could well be able to start training as a coach, if she is still interested, which I think could also be a great opportunity.

Thing is though, when they started they did actually spend a lot of time doing the things you describe: hanging off bars and walking up and down beams. I think my DS spent much of two years doing pretty much that.

My ds is a tumbler. He won gold in the Yorkshire championships in Feb and is in the National Semi Finals in May. He is 10.

He started pre-baga classes at 4 and moved over to Gym Club when he was 6. He trains for 9 hours a week. He does continuous flics, whips, somersaults etc.

I would recommend that you find a club that has a good structure. Initially following the Baga scheme. At least you will then know exactly what level she is at and the path she is following.

Uggmum- what grade is he on?

Uggmum well done to you DS glad he is doing so well.

Thanks. He is competing at national 1. But I think he will bypass a few levels for pre-Lims in Nov as his strength has really come on in the last 6 mths and he trains a few levels above his current competition level.

With tumbling you've got to be careful as it puts a lot of strain on the joints and growth plates at his age.

I only ask because we were at the Yorkshire Acrobatics in March and the club grade tumbling championships were on at the same time and I wonderd if we had seen your DS.

They've slight the club grades and nationals this year so we were at a different venue and it was just tumbling competing.

It's a shame really as I love watching the acro too.

*split

The other thing that really winds me up is that the rec classes are required to wear uniform (and the leotard is expensive) - whereas the squad girls can wear what they like. Sounds like money making to me?

Just wanted to comment on this as I feel it's quote common to think this - my DD is an artistic gymnast and can west any leotard to train while rec classes wear uniform.

However, DD trains 5 days a week so needs lots of leotards which are expensive (£30-£50 each). Hand guards are £45 and they also need conditioning equipment such as stretch bars.

Competitions (4/5 per year) cost approx £30 entry plus petrol/hotel stay if far away.

Competition leotards (one to compete and one for warm up) are anywhere from (£40 - £135!!). So compared to rec the artistic parents pay out loads (plus monthly fees of approx £100).