How much music practice (secondary school pupil) is an optimum but realistic amount?

[mrsjavierbardem]

How often, and for how long, do your dcs practice their musical instruments?

I want ds to do more but it's so hard. A friend says every morning before school is easier than blood from a stone after school.

DS2 is Y6 and does some morning practice but not all, but he has to fit in piano, trombone and clarinet and a busy schedule as a chorister. As far as my secondary DC go, (and I am not saying this is enough)

DS1 (Y11) (Tuba/trombone around Grade 7 - no exams this year but festival entries on tuba/trombone in March) maybe 20 mins each 3 times a week, but he plays in 6 different bands and groups during the week. This does ramp up before exams/festival when he realises its really happening. Achieved distinctions in previous exams doing this (but not piano where not enough practice resulted in a scraped pass at Grade 5).

DD (Y9) Alto/baritone sax (Grade 6 exam and festival in March) 20-30 mins 2 or 3 times a week. Again she plays in four bands/groups, and she will practice more nearer the time.

Piano started in summer and probably around Grade 3, about 20 - 30 mins a day in fits and starts.

Cello never, which is why she stopped it at Christmas.

Dd1 does 15 minutes piano 5x a week (minimum idea, although sometimes it's less if she's a lot on). She's done grade 5, and needs to do theory, so she is meant to do 30 minutes theory on top of this.
Singing (same standard) depends on the week. If she's doing a lot of choir work then she usually does less practice.

Mine aren't at secondary yet, but:

DD1 (8) Grade 5 recorder - 20-30 mins, 2-3x a week. She also helps with one of my beginner classes, and plays in a group. She'll do much more before the exam.

Grade 2+ flute - 20 minutes, 5x a week, plus her lesson, and an hour of band.

She sings ALL the time.

DD2 (5) Initial Grade Recorder - 10-15 minutes every single day, and plays in a group.
Ukulele - 5 minutes a week!

We do most of it in the mornings, causing inevitable fights over music, stands, time and attention...

We don't practise before school.

Dd1 (y5) violin grade 6-7 (35 mins each evening after dinner).
Cello grade 4 (25 mins before or after violin)

Ds (y2) violin grade 2 (20 mins in the evening).

Ds could potentially do morning practise, but I find it all too much of a rush and I would need to be up and ready extra early.

Forgot to add my dcs practise every day and I have to sit with them for practise (a little less so now with dd), so we have to fit it in to when is best for us all, especially as I also have a little one to get ready too.

If you are having to force a secondary school pupil to practice then I would say forget it.
Music should be a passion not something that is a chore.
I played an instrument at secondary school and I would practice from morning till night if I could, I didn't stop all through the holidays i would be meeting with friends, playing together, being creative, studying for exams- what is the point if there is no love or passion?

I see the same passio in my teenage daughter who is a dancer- I struggle to rein in the hours that she spends dancing- she does 10 classes a week, and even at home she dances in he kitchen, dances up the stairs, I caught her dancing in M&S the other day in a quiet corner as there was music playing- is this not what the arts should be about?

Having to supervise and time practice for a secondary school pupil defeats the purpose- either they want to study music or they don't.
If you are at this stag then it's time to consider dropping music study to focus on areas that the child does enjoy.

Ds1year 7 drums 20 mins per day in lunch hour.
Ds2 year 5 bagpipes 30mins per day . Unsupervised

I disagree, Stroke. DS took considerable coercion at some stages of early secondary, because there was so much else to get his head round.

Now he's older, better, and really loves playing with lots of different groups which he couldn't have done without the early practice. He plays several extra instruments, pretty much self-taught, and spends his holidays meeting friends to play, as you describe he's still an idle bugger when it comes to actual practice though.

supposed to be 5 sessions of 20 mins ...

Sorry, Stroke, that was probably a bit abrupt! What I should have said is that some children are self-motivated by secondary age and others have yet to see the link between practice and getting better, even when it's something they enjoy.

Very refreshing to see some less-than-perfect practice schedules here! DD1 plays 2 instruments. On her preferred instrument, she probably does about four sessions of 20mins or so in the week - closer to every day if an exam is coming up. On the other one, she practices once in a blue moon, but still enjoys is and is happy to bumble along. Her teacher doesn't appear to mind and it gives her a bit of practice with ensemble playing (1st inst is piano), so we are keeping it up for the time being.

Violin, Grade 3-4, DD age 12. typically 2 x 30 minute sessions/week.

ps: she's picking out tunes on piano, sometimes spends over an hour doing that.

Assuming they start when still in primary school...

Beginners, 5-10min at least five times a week (short bursts work as pieces are short).
Early grades, 20-30min at least three times a week but I tell them five (e.g. students practising two instruments do alternate days with one day off). I expect this for secondary students. The students I teach through school sign a contract which requires 15min three times a week; it's realistic and better than nothing but I don't think it's enough and if I only ask for that... it won't happen.
Grade 6+ minimum 45min four times a week plus ensemble playing etc. but six or seven times 20min would do the same job if carefully planned.

I think the most I did in secondary school was 90min piano in the morning before school (took grade 8 in the sixth form) and 3 hours of violin in the evening (well past grade 8), plus all the ensemble playing I did. Both times, the practice was split into 1/3 scales, 1/3 technique, 1/3 repertoire (good policy). But I was considering music as a career choice.

Also, apparently if you need to practise more than 5 hours a day you're doing something wrong ;-)

JulieMichelleRobinson it is really helpful to hear your advice and I will now feel happier as long as DD1 manages three or four decent practice sessions per week. She's doing fine in her exams, plays nicely, and isn't aiming for a career. Just passed Grade 3 with merit and got a distinction for two of her pieces, which is more than I ever managed!

But I see her piano teacher socially and perpetually feel like a guilty schoolchild when I know she hasn't practised every day .

DS (yr7) - no need for any nagging. A blessing
Before school is not an option, we live in a terraced house!
After school and on weekends:
piano (grade 6): average 45 min x 4/5 times a week
drums (grade 6): average 35 min x 3 times a week
theory (grade 5): complete homework set by teacher

Lessons are 45 min piano, 50 min drums, 30 min tuned percussion, 30 min theory.

Chicken,

I think it's more important to practise efficiently. E.g. you're struggling with two bars of this piece. Practise those two bars until you can play them well. That might take 2min or 10min. Then try and play the whole piece. It's much quicker than playing through the tune, especially since kids will usually play the easy bit, stop when they mess up, then go back to the start. Also splitting pieces into sections and starting with the last one, working backwards. You have ten scales to learn; do two each day. That sort of thing.

No doubt your DDs teacher will say the same - but I spend a lot of time trying to teach my students how to practise.

Haha now I sound like I know what I'm talking about!!!

Speaking as a parent and a teacher here. I agree with the above poster, if by secondary school they need to be nagged then don't bother. The occasional reminder perhaps, or helping to negotiate time/space with competing siblings, but they should really be doing it themselves.

Primary school children may need help to organise themselves, but should be working towards independent learning and playing by the upper years.

Here, an hour each before school usually (in separate rooms so concurrently), as much as possible after school. One has had permission to miss non-essential lessons at school and come home to do more, but that was with music college auditions and major concerts looming.

The general rule of thumb is 10 minutes per grade each day, so for Grade 5, 50 minutes, but I don't really agree, it's the quality of the playing which counts. Playing a piece from start to finish is rarely, if ever, effective.

As a teacher, I've been known to 'sack' non-practisers, they are aware of this and generally are a motivated bunch.

I'm not sure agree that if they must be nagged then don't bother. The nagging is worse for the parent so it depends what you can stand. I'm sure DD will thank me when she is 18 for all the nagging....

Teens go through phases. DS 16 has had trumpet lessons for 8 years ( gulp) and didn't practice much age 13- 14 ish but has now gone back to it and I'm so glad he / I hung in there as he plays in a wind band which he enjoys.
DD15 wants to be a singer / song writer. She spends hours at the piano singing / improvising. She has to be seriously nagged to practice her grade 5 stuff but I think I would be letting her down if I let her give up as she will appreciate her technique eventually.

A short regular focused practice at this age can bring about great results.
It is so hard to learn an instrument when you are an adult.
That said , it's not for everyone, I only persevere because DD loves singing.

DD1 is Y6, so it will be interesting to see what happens next year! At present she does:

Piano - a random 5-10 mins before school. Not very high quality practice but keeps it ticking over.

Clarinet (Gr 2) - 15 mins after school (usually 7pm while I am getting DD2 to bed) most nights

Singing (Gr 4/5) - sporadic as singing is easier to practise on the hoof! at the moment at least 15 mins supervised practice every night as she has an exam on Sat, but after that it will be more infrequent again. She goes to choir once a week, and has her lesson once a week so she is singing fairly regularly.

My DDs are still in Primary, dd1 will be secondary next year.

There was near mutiny when I suggested moving practice to mornings before school.. I don't think that will change when they get to secondary. They like to zone out on iPods, catching up on snapchats over night. Or watching YouTube clips..

Both DDs do 30 mins 4 times a week. They have 2 classes a week plus junior orchestra, so they play their violins 7 days a week.

Ideally, on school days, they eat when they come home from school, finish homework, get 30 mins play time to relax and then supervised practice. But we had times where we are fitting in 15 mins just before bedtime...

I am expecting not to supervise practice once they go to secondary. But I am expecting to still need to nag to get them to practice...

I agree with Twelve

If you are having to nag them, or it is a battle when they reach secondary, it may be time to stop.
Music is supposed to be fun and practice should never be seen as a chore.
To me unless they really want to do it, its not worth the hassle.

My dd is 10 and practices between 2.5 and 4 hours a day.
Although not done lots of exams she is approx grade 1- 6 on four instruments.
She's a bit of a freak though, admittedly.

I used to do half an hour every day when I was learning piano. This carried on til I was about 13 after which it was more a case of how long I wasn't playing it for each day

DTD1 has just started (she's 7) and does 10-15 mins daily. DTD2 has just started flute and does the same. They each have practise diaries that DH & I put stickers in when they've done it.

I strongly agree that by the time they are at secondary school they shouldn't need to be nagged, although nagging is different to helping them work out a realistic schedule which they then stick to.

We're very lucky here, DD is very keen and will do music at university or music college. So, at least 2 hours a day during the week, more if possible, and up to 5 hours each day at the weekend. Orchestra rehearsals are extra to this. I do realise that's unusual, but she is keen enough to sacrifice other activities.

DD1 Grade 4 piano: has a 30 min lesson, does 3 hours on the afternoon immediately before the lesson. Then maybe another couple of 30 mins during the week. She does spend additional time tinkling and composing, but not actually practising as such.
DD1 Grade 5 violin: does about an hour in dribs and drabs but also does a separate strings group and county orchestra so I guess she plays for about 6 hours a week in total.

DD2 Grade 1 cornet does about 2.5 hours a week: regularly wakes us up at 6.30 and does only 10 mins, but another day may play for an hour.

They both know that I'll remind on occasion but not nag. If they don't progress I'll stop paying for the lessons: it's their choice.