When to buy them their own instrument?

[17leftfeet]

Dd plays violin

Started in yr 5 as we are very lucky to have free lessons and instrument hire until the end of yr 6

She's done her grade 2 and has started going to the junior community orchestra so I think she will stick at it (she's yr 6)

When she goes to high school I will have to source a violin which I can rent from school, the music shop or buy her one

I'm thinking about getting her one for Christmas but with a budget of £80 to buy one will I be able to get one to take her a bit higher up the grades or am I better renting?

My daughter recently outgrew her 3/4 sized violin. It is in perfect condition and comes with a case / bow etc. It might not be what you are looking for (it is not an expensive one). I have been advertising it for sale for £35 locally, but no takers. If this is of any interest, pm me and I will send photos. Not sure of how much the postage will be either - possibly £10 (based on a pair of boots I recently posted). I will put it on ebay anyway once I find some time!

Well done her! Sounds like she deserves her own instrument if you can afford it. And what an enlightened LEA!

I would ask her teacher. Always. If you don't see the teacher, sneak a note in her music book (asking him/her to keep schtumm)

PS violin shops may do a sell-and-buy-back scheme, basically they say they'll give you x% back of what you pay if you later trade up. Useful if you're moving up the sizes, but your teacher can tell you the best time to invest in her own instrument.

I've never met the teacher and I never had access to lessons so grades etc are all new to me

She didn't do grade 1 but did grade 2 after 12 months of lessons -I'm guessing that's a normal rate of progress though

She is practising everyday without prompting and is really proud that she can play

Is the teacher likely to recommend somewhere to go or might she even have instruments to sell

I was also thinking about possibly giving her a model violin as a joke present then taking her to try out a violin before buying it as I'm told they 'feel' different?

Please do this in close liaison with the teacher. Don't just go and buy one. She isn't a beginner so if she's ready for full size (is she?) it's investment time.
The violin must be perfectly "set up" too.

I have no idea if she's ready for a full size -she's got a 3/4 at the minute which to me looks too small?

I'll slip a note in her bag for the teacher I think

My 8yo (yr 4) is on a 3/4 size - I think I moved onto a full size in Yr 6 (or equivalent!)

I've been picking up second hand decent smaller size violins for DS for under £200 (better than the new cheaper ones).

I would also find out how much hire would be a term - you might find that it would be worth thinking how many years worth of rent you could put towards the cost, particularly if you can find a shop that would be willing to do a buy-back option.

I really think you are looking at £200+ for a violin to take her past grade 5. She does sound like she has an aptitude for it. Don't forget that a decent set of strings will go a long way to make a cheaper instrument sound better.

She will need to try out a few violins. If you go to a specialist shop (preferably taking her teacher or someone who knows a thing or too - we didn't manage that) and give them a budget and let her try several. Dd surprised us by falling in love with an old violin, quite a contrast from the very bright one she had been playing. The bow also makes a difference.

Agree with others that you need to try out. My ds2 has only just moved on to a full size and he is 13 & in year 9! Fortunately we have a decent one in the family so he's using his great grandmother's violin.

Schilke - how lucky is your ds :)

I have to disagree! My daughter is doing really, really well (no grades but plays in a traditional band etc) and is doing it on a cheap violin. We haven't got the money to spend £200+ on an instrument and she gets by just find on one that cost far less than that. We found one for £85 new and it is fantastic. Her teachers are both professional musicians and are delighted with the quality of the sound she is making. I don't think you have to spend a fortune to get a decent instrument.

Sorry Hamlet'sS, but I have to disagree. I have played the instruments you can get for £85. OK, you can make a decent sound on them. But if you play an old one and contrast it, the difference is huge. However, there are also some crummy old ones out there too. DS is lucky because I can go into our little local violin shop and play all the second hand ones and pick out the one that I think will suit him the best, then get it set up with decent strings. OK, that costs me £150 - 200 - but I can get that back if I trade it in with the violin restorer there (I wouldn't get £85 back on a new one). And the tonal difference it makes is huge. Even DS, at 6, chose the old violin over the new shiny one because it made a nicer noise when he played it.

this might be a helpful guide.

We are renting DS's violin, it's only £5 a month, the shop will change the violin as and when DS needs a larger size. It is a lovely sounding violin, brand new.
I think whilst they are growing it doesn't make sense to buy a new one that they will outgrow.

I waited until DD could use a full size one as not cost effective until then. DD's is a 2nd hand Stenor that cost £65 with case; she has always played Stenor (school hire) so satisfied with that. She tried it in the shop after she had her Grade 3 and we tried to be as critical of it as possible before purchase. Luckily they also had a 3/4 there so we could be more confident of sizing.

We've just moved onto a 1/2 and ds is preparing fpr g2 next term. Cheapest instrument in the shop was 120 and next 195. Ds really wanted one that had a good tone and I was prepared to spend more but the cheaper one actually sounded better (the other was a v basic primavera with dominant strings and it sounded oddly bright). I was just about to part with the money for the cheaper violin when ds spotted another half size and tried it, and it sounded beautiful. Ended up spending nearly 400. It should see ds through at least the next two grades and we can always sell it on afterwards or use it for dd if she does violin.

I thought violins were much more expensive than that, to be honest. I, and my DDs, play wind instruments (we all play flute and recorders) and that can really come to money. Up to about grade 3 on the flute you can get away with a £100 ish one off amazon or similar. From grade 4ish to about grade 6, you need as a minimum a £300ish one, and after that, if you are looking at conservatoire - well over £1K. DD1s flute cost a bit more than £2K and it isn't silver all through, just the head. And flute is her second study! For records, plastic will take you through to grade 5ish, after that you are looking at a variety of instruments (as a minimum you need a decent sopranino, descant, treble - and if you are serious you need a decent tenor and bass too). Even though an individual recorder if the quality needed is going to cost less than a decent flute, when you add the cost up...nightmare. DD1 is still playing a plastic bass and tenor but I will probably have to get her decent ones now she has gone beyond grade 8. dD2 is still on plastic but will get her first decent descant for Xmas.

Metebelis - I think that you can easily spend a lot more on a violin than a flute or a recorder.... And if you did pay £1,000 you would normally end up with something better than if you spent £200 - but for the early grades its not necessarily essential, and they are also SO easy to damage - scratch, bang, drop the bow etc...

In fact, my viola has a line of dents on the belly where people have 'fallen off' the finger board with their fingers in high positions and made a dent with their finger nail - which I have added to a couple of times, despite having very short nails.

Someone at school had their cello out, resting on the floor and managed to trip over and put their foot through the back... they're so easy to ruin that you don't really want your 8 yo running around (and taking part in massed string playing sessions with lots of other people and music stands) with a valuable instrument.

Buying secondhand is always a good option if you know what you are looking for. Ask the teacher for advice on what questions to ask and what to avoid, and you should be able to find a good instrument on gumtree, ebay, musicalads, preloved etc...etc... Never buy anything without actually trying it out!!
My DD is still playing on a stunning 1/2 which we found on ebay. Went to see it before bidding and her teacher is absolutely thrilled. We paid under £200 and to have bought the same model new would have been more than double this. Instruments like this are few and far between...I have been searching for her next size up for about 8 months now and nothing suitable has come up within our budget...
You can always sell on a decent instrument when you need to upsize or upgrade. Rental instruments are effectively a waste of money, because you should be able to make back a similar amount to what you spend if you buy wisely secondhand in the first place.