parents/teachers of singing

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello, was wondering if anybody could advise, as I can't ask singing teacher as he is male and probably wouldn't know.

My dd is 9 and has continued practising and lessons over holidays. i'm telling you this so you know its not just holidays and out of practice. Also new teacher so he hasn't heard her say 3 months ago.

Over the past couple of months her voice has dropped quite a lot and where she could only reach a low B/A at a push can reach G with ease now. She used to reach top A very easy and is now struggling to hit E.

She is probably just starting puberty and I know there are changes in range, but can anybody tell me if this is a normal change please.

I would ask the singing teacher, if he can't answer then he shouldn't be teaching her.

In my opinion it sounds worrying, and she could be straining her voice as with practice girls tend to be able to sing higher at this age. The lowering of an experienced singer can come from : strain and damage, or just the lower range becoming more comfortable.

Thank you mummytime. I will speak to him and she also goes back to her choirs soon.
I may have given the wrong impression about her teacher, its just he is new to her and I don't know him well yet. It was the talk about change in voice due to puberty I was a bit embarrassed about, although it wouldn't be a problem if I knew him better.
I am quite worried now and hope she hasn't strained her voice. She did have tonsillitis in April but rested her voice for several weeks. I'm hoping she is just more comfortable.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this

My dh is a vocal coach and has researched the effects if puberty. It is normal, girls voices temporarilly lose range and can become breathy. It's more usual a bit older though. It's impossible to say exactly what is going on without hearing her but she could be trying to take her speech quality (chest voice) too high

Try getting her to whine (oh please mummy) and then use that feeling of what she does to whine when she sings in her higher register.

Thank you pictures.
I will have a go at this and pluck up the courage to speak to her teacher. I suppose I was shocked and concerned because obviously the teacher is new, this has only happened quite recently and she is just starting puberty albeit very young.
She also used to have such a good range too and the piece she sang that secured her place in a really good choir she can't get anywhere near now.
I think this was what worried me more.
Sorry to ask but obviously still testing water with new teacher so would like to know what others think, is it normal (not right though) for children to close their throat on higher notes, as a result of thinking they won't reach it.

I am a singing teacher, and would mostly agree with pictures' husbands thoughts. A change in comfortable singing range (usually temporary) is very normal in pubescent girls, although it usually presents as "gaps", or a feeling of losing strength in varying parts of the voice, rather than a sudden lowering of total range. Given her age and that she is more likely PRE pubescent and not in the pre-menarcheal stage, I would actually think there is something else going on here.

Of course it is very difficult without hearing her, but as pictures suggests, it sounds as if she is having a bit of a mental block in her ability to access her upper range. This can happen for a variety of reasons...choice of repertoire, different teacher using different terms for technique that has caused some errors in how she approaches things. I am not saying she is being taught incorrectly - rather that as teachers we have to be very careful how our students understand what we are teaching! The human voice and how we sing is quite magically transformable by how we talk about it or imagine it (it's our only tool to "get at it"!). Please do talk to her teacher and ask your daughter to describe what she experiences when singing in her upper range - your description of closing her throat on high notes is a red flag in terms of how it should FEEL, despite the actual physical process being akin to "closing" as the vocal folds stretch, thin and vibrate faster. I would expect my students to imagine an opening in their throats as they move up the range, to make sure to avoid any laryngeal constriction which will limit their range.

What sort of music does she listen to? Who is her favourite singer? All these things can also affect a young voice - we are born mimics, so if she is trying to sound like Adele at age 9, no good will come of that!

I'm sure she will "unblock" quite easily with a bit of detailed imaginative exercising by her teacher.

Continuing the subject of construction (and in loath to suggest too much because it really is impossible to say what's wrong over the Internet) when she sings she should have the feeling of a silent laugh in her larynx.

If she is not sure what construction feels like its the feeling you get if you are straining for example if you tried to lift a chair with you sitting on it. Some people have that tension they sing & its not good

Agree speak to the teacher.

Oh thank you both so much.
It seems like we had some breakthrough today. My dh has been going into lessons with her for a few weeks at her teachers request and he records piano accompaniment as neither me nor dh play piano. He couldn't go today so I took her.
I was going to mention it at the right time but he beat me to it and I saw for myself what she was doing. The higher she gets the lower her head goes instead of singing straight in front of her. It must have been getting worse as he stopped her immediately and explained what he wanted her to do and what she was doing wrong. I have sorted out a mirror for her and she can watch her positioning.
He also pointed out to her where she was hitting the note she was sort of strangling, in other pieces where she had no problem iyswim.
She doesn't sing any really pop stuff as she doesn't really like it. ATM she seems happy with the abrsm songbooks and has attempted much of 3 and 4 and many others not in the books at this level. She likes The sound of music, Disney songs, Bridge over troubled water, Annie, Wicked, (I'm not that girl) I feel Pretty, Last Rose Of Summer, that sort of stuff. Thank you so much for hitting the nail on the head and taking time to reply.

I'm really glad to hear that her lesson went well and she has some things to work on to help. Certainly any kind of misalignment of the neck affects the flexibility of the voice - quite unusual for her to be head down at her age, it's usually all neck stretched out, nose in the air!

It's nice to hear she is enjoying the ABRSM songs, there are some lovely ones in those books and most Disney songs are fabulous for young voices - the songbook compilations are great. I often think many of the (particularly earlier) songs look like vocal exercises - lots of descending phrases and rising circular patterns. I personally wouldn't be suggesting "I'm not that girl" for a 9 year old, particularly one who is starting to struggle a bit in her upper range, and "dig" for low notes (this is the chin down thing) - it really is VERY low and much more for an older voice. If she is desperate to sing Wicked, the Glinda songs would be a safer bet.

I'm probably just repeating what her teacher is already advising you/her -the key to this age is really just working on her musicality, keeping the technique nice and simple and not pushing her or her voice.

Good luck

I stopped dd singing I'm not that girl as its very very low. (We love Wicked). She has a tendency to pull her head and neck back, dh is always correcting her. She's a dancer so it conflicts with her dance posture at times

Has she looked at Matilda. Dd sang Quiet for her audition school, fabulous song but quite intense. Naughty is fun too, but some tricky intervals & awkward timing.

Glad the teacher has picked up on what seems to be happening. So many singing teachers just let kids song though songs without addressing the technical aspects.

Thank you both for your comments and I'm a bit flummoxed now. It was her teacher who chose I'm not that Girl, dd hadn't heard it before.
I thought it was a bit low to begin with.
She isn't singing it so much now but I will try and get her to find something else.
He mentioned her doing grade 3 pieces for an exam she won't take (long story) but I think it will keep her focussed and allow her to give the pieces she knows a good polish.
She has heard Naughty and Quiet but only on youtube, we don't have the music. I would get it for her but the expense of buying music all the time is getting ridiculous
I had to get The Secret Garden as she wanted to do The Girl I mean to be, it is lovely though.
Thank you all again for some wonderful help, support and sharing your knowledge.