What to suggest to fill a term of music lessons with no goal?

[DowntonTrout]

DD has won a place at a Theatre School and so is moving school after Christmas, shes Y6 anyway so only moving 2 terms early. I've handed in the notice to school and DD will continue her singing, piano and recorder lessons up until then as you have to give a full terms notice to stop.

She took singing and piano grades in the summer and so, I suppose, there isnt time for her to prepare for another grade and I don't particularly want to push for that as I know grades arent the be all and end all.

Her music teacher has asked to speak to me about what I want her to do with DD. tBH I would have cancelled the lessons if I could, it's almost £400 and it feels like she's just going to be marking time. There are no performance opportunities coming up, or music festivals, so nothing to work towards.

I would like to say just have fun with music. Sing some thing that DD wouldn't usually have chance to try, instead of plodding away with folk songs, trad, grade work, but this teacher and I have had run ins before. She is not inspirational, teaches by bullying, has called DD stupid, idiot etc ( its her manner, she's the same with all the pupils). I nearly pulled DD out of her lessons before over it.

I feel a bit like she's thinking DD is leaving so there's not much point bothering with her. I don't know what to suggest and I'm not looking forward to this meeting. She has pooh-poohed songs in the past that DD has learnt at home and asked to sing. She has refused to enter DD into music festivals before claiming DD is not ready ( DD was entered by an out of school choral director and DD won the class and beat much older pupils from school- it didn't go down well.)

Any ideas what I can suggest she does? Surelyif there's no pressure for exams DD could just be doing music she enjoys?

I think you should complain and ask for your money back, sounds like she is an awful teacher!
If your DD has to continue then maybe think about something that will help her at theatre school, could you liaise with them and ask what music they will be studying next year? I'm sure singing and voice will play a big part in her studies.

DD has already done a term of Saturday school at the theatre school. She was awarded top of the class status by the musical director there. She sings outside school with a very well known choir and was concert performer of the year there.she passed a voice test for a choristership at a top music school but we decided against it as DD is also into drama and it was all music.

I think her teacher thinks I'm a pushy mum, but DD has proved herself over and over again and all I do is facilitate what she NEEDS to do. I just feel she should be a bit more pleased with DDs achievements, after all, the teacher has to take some of the credit for her success, instead of asking me what she's supposed to do with her. I mean Y6 is all about prepping for entrance exams but the Maths teacher hasn't come and asked me what to do because DD won't be sitting any.

Can you cut a deal with someone else who wants lessons and sell them on to another family at half price? It would halve your losses... Or can she do aural and theory work ?

Try to cut your losses, throw it back at them- if they can't think of anything to do with her then you will free up the space for someone else, taking half of the fee back for doing so.

How hard can it be though?! Teacher should look at your daughters interests, take it from there, have a short term project like writing her own song, prepare some audition type pieces, revisit songs she has struggled with previously etc etc!

If you decide to go ahead with the lessons, then I would ask the teacher to work on non syllabus pieces with your daughter. Certainly for singing I would ask her the sort of music she would like to be singing - for me it was always musical theatre material, which does feature in the grades, but not heavily enough for my taste! From that the teacher should be able to find some appropriate songs, that won't be covered in the syllabus, and that she can have fun with.

I would say to take the same approach with the instruments, although there is probably less options regarding genre at a suitable level, but the teacher should still be able to find some appropriate non syllabus music, which will help your DD practice some sight reading and get used to playing music other than the 3 (or however many it is at that level) pieces in her grade. The alternative of course would be to start working towards the next exam - she wouldn't be able to do it this term, but if she will be continuing her lessons when she moves school then it wouldn't hurt to start work on the next grade. But I think it is really important that children play/sing music that isn't part of the grades, both for enjoyment, and to make them a better musician.

purplepenguin you've hit it on the head where DDs interests lie and that's exactly what I think she should be doing. But from past experience when DDs taken in songs she's taught herself ie Defying Gravity- her teacher refused point blank saying it would ruin her voice and she would not consider it for a performance piece.

Well I get that- about protecting her voice, but how to stop a 10 year old singing the Wicked score for hours and hours every night. She's done a lot of pop style songs in mic technique, but apparently none of them are suitable either. Shes teaching herself the Gary Barlow song Sing at the moment so she can accompany herself on the piano, as she's performed the song with choir. But the teacher just huffs and rolls her eyes. Honestly I'm surprised she hasnt managed to kill off DDs enthusiasm already.

I'm so glad DD is going to be somewhere where they encourage her and she can just do her thing every day. Cant really start work on a new grade as her teacher only does Trinity Guildhall and the next school don't.

ivananap all good suggestions. DD hasn't ever struggled with a song, what she sings with choral is much more complex so the grade work and levels she works at at school she sails through. Of course there are always things to correct and do better but it seems pointless to keep repeating just for the sake of it. Piano is a much lower grade than the singing so lots of room for improvement with that but I think it's going to take a new more inspirational teacher to move DD on with it.

DD has recently realised the value of the 4 chords that make up the majority of pop songs. Every time she hears a song that works with it she can hear it. It's like nearly every song fits to the chords of "Don't Stop Beliving" or something ( thanks You Tube!) if she could work on putting together something like that- just for fun- it would be great.

Given that the teacher has asked to meet with you rather than the other way around, my approach would be that if they can't think of something useful and engaging to do with her for the term, they should forget it and refund you the £400 - it sounds like she does plenty of other music stuff outside school to keep her happy.

Thats about the size of it stealth I think we all know she's just going through the motions, but expecting her to do something fun and interesting would probably be too much trouble.

Don't like my chances of getting the money refunded, I know it's a terms notice so fairs fair. But not if she can't be bothered.

from what you say about the teacher in your OP, I doubt heavily that "making the music fun" for your dd in the time left till Christmas is what she will do. Best therefore I think to have a structured plan. I don't know why she seems to like taking your dd down which from what you say is the case and I agree with you that her manner wouldn't appeal to me. I would be tempted to quit the lessons and let your dd play around at home on the instruments and sing what she wants.

If you continue with the lessons, perhaps at the meeting you could bring songs from musicals which dd likes along with you, saying dd must prepare these for the new school possibly. For piano perhaps she could also learn to play the accompaniments? For recorder she may as well get started on the next grade

It's just her way. She gets excellent results for the ones who stick it out. Quite a few give up before Grade 1 as she frightens them. We have had to encourage DD to toughen up- no bad thing, but I had to complain about her use of the word stupid and idiot, not "you are behaving in a stupid way," "but you are an idiot" for getting it wrong.

Anyway, that's all in the past. DD has got where she wants to be.I'm not musical at all- so I have no choice but to be lead by DD. if the teacher can't be a bit flexible and come up with something I'm sure I can't!

I remember you posting about this teacher before. Well, of course you can start the meeting by asking her for her recommendations if she leaves the ball in your court. If she has nothing to suggest which appeals to you as a solution, I would personally go armed with something. I presume she is a teacher who is more comfortable teaching to a concrete goal such as a grade exam or working through a particular book in which case it might be the best way forward. My dd doesn't do exams so I am not up of those, but I am sure there will be plenty of books with a selection of grade relevant pieces. Perhaps you could get a couple of those and have dd choose what she likes from those?

up on those it should read

Surely the problem is the teacher! It's a horrible way to teach by terror.

What she should/could be doing is extending her skills laterally. If my kids had this opportunity at yr6 I'd say spend a term playing/singing entirely by ear from memory, learn some jazz music structure/chords/scales and learn to be brave and improvise.

My kids are all great musicians but, because of the route they have taken since young, are very classically based and scared of " making it up" which is now having to be "un learned" to invent cadenzas etc . They'd have benefited from having some more " free" music under their belt younger I think.

(DS is now teaching himself jazz and learning acoustic guitar)

If your DD has been taught well and is using good technique surely she can't " ruin" her voice by singing anything? (unless she'd doing gravelly eartha kitt impressionsLOL)

Downton the teacher does have a point in not working on something like Defying Gravity with her - that is a very belty song, and it isn't good for young voices to be working on material that is very belty, as it is a particular technique which can't be developed until you are older. Of course all of the kids are going to sing it in their bedrooms, but that is a bit different to working on it with a teacher. However, there is an enormous amount of musical theatre material that would be very suitable for her to work on, and that I think would be very reasonable to suggest. I am in a rush now, but I will come back later and suggest some pieces - what sort of voice type is she?

How about some Christmassy things?

Oh thank you. She's soprano.

The bottom end of Castle on a Cloud is really too low for her.
Colours of the wind (pop version) had to be transposed from Bb major to D major for her. Is that helpful?

DD really enjoys songs with characterisation, Popular, Wouldn't it be Lovely, Whats Wrong With Me?
She's done the usual Favorite Things, Who Will Buy, Over The Rainbow, consider Yourself.

She's doing quite an obscure song called Callers (Caryl Brahms/ Arthur Benjamin) for a festival, but she did it two years ago and so it's just repeating and not really stretching her (Actually she hates it!)

What about composition? When I was young and musical there was no point in me participating in school music lessons as I was already a competent musician. Instead I was given composition assignments which I really enjoyed. Could she perhaps work towards writing and performing a song to go with a story she likes that dosent have an existing musical?

Oh dear. Sounds like the teacher is very classical based and doesn't know enough about safe MT techniques. Dh us an MT specialist who teaches at some of the leading colleges & he comes across this sort of thing all the time

DG is belts but you can cheat with twang. Kids can belt but it's a more advanced technique and you have to get to grips with some other stuff first.

Are you able to say where your dd is going.

My dd has similar probs with school choir (teacher doesn't seem to get get mt voice but often when dh hears concerns the kids with solos are very breathy & haven't got good vocal fold closure which can be dangerous, more dangerous than mt techniques!

That's interesting pictures.

dDs voice is strong and clear. Her tone is very natural and her breath control and pitching is excellent. (I'm reading this from her exam comments)
I know DG is difficult and advanced, DD can certainly belt it out and it doesn't sound forced to me but I'm willing to listen to any expert who says she's doing it wrong or that it might be damaging her voice. She does seem able to alter her style of singing to suit the piece and I don't know if that's technique she's been taught or not. That song was only an example of one suggestion though, it's been the same sort of reaction every time she's asked DD what she'd like to try.

It doesn't really matter, I suppose. It's only a term and we'll be glad to move on. At least the new school recognise something in her and will push and challenge her and until then shes still got choral. I'm just a bit 'meh' that her teacher can't think outside the box a bit, or give her something to learn for the Christmas play. I know whatever I suggest she'll roll her eyes. Every child sings the same songs/ plays the same piano pieces, every year for each grade so i suppose DD wanting to do more or something different has been a bit of a challenge for her too.

Ok, some suggestions of material for kids that doesn't get done as often - the super obvious stuff I'm not even going to mention. Most of this stuff would be suitable audition material.

25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee - great show about kids at a spelling bee, the kids are played by adults when it is on professionally but there's some great music in there that would be age appropriate and fun. If she likes character numbers I would particularly recommend 'I Speak Six Languages'. It's a tough song so would be a bit of a challenge for her, but it is brilliant when done well, and good fun.

13 - Jason Robert Brown. Musical about a group of 13 year old kids. Lots of material suitable for young voices as that is what it is written for, and by a fabulous composer. Well worth a look.

Matilda - Obviously loads of suitable child material, lots of character numbers that she could really have fun with (Ok, so that one is super obvious but I couldn't leave it out!)

The Secret Garden - some lovely music and doesn't really get done very much.

Seussical - really good fun, tonnes of material again. Would look particularly at Gertrude McFuzz, Amayzing Mayzie and Notice Me Horton, but lots and lots of songs in there.

Just So - another fun show with lots of material that wouldn't be inappropriate for children.

Honk - same composers as Just So, similar style.

Whistle Down the Wind - several suitable songs, particularly the title number

Gigi - The Earth and Other Minor Things - nice classic musical theatre song that would be suitable for children.

My Own Little Corner - Cinderella - Gets done a bit more (or used to) but nice song.

There's some stuff to be getting on with - let me know if you need more ideas, or specific types of song etc and I'll see what I can come up with. All the material above should be suitable for young voices, and also age appropriate content, and most of it isn't overdone so great for auditions etc.

I love purple penguins suggestions especially I speak six languages

If her voice is clear then she sounds like she has good technique and closure.

Teacher sounds awful. My dd would love to go where your dd is but finances and distance prohibit. We will consider options at 16.

Wow purplepenguin thank you so much for taking the time to do that. Amazing that a person, who I've never met, can make such a big effort when someone I'm paying cant be bothered!

Will have a listen to them tonight (and DD, obviously!) I'm sure there's plenty there for her to have a go at.

It's no problem, I believe in sharing the knowledge - pay it forward and all that! If you need help in the future feel free to ask. Let me know how you get on!

Sorry, I just thought of another song that I think would be great for your DD.

My New Philosophy - it's from the revival of You're A Good Man Charlie Brown, and it is a fab song. Really fun character song - you should be able to find Kristin Chenoweth performing it on youtube.

There's also some stuff in Snoopy the musical that might be suitable.