Cubs - am I being silly?

[redskyatnight]

DS has been on waiting lists for Beavers for 2 years now. As he's nearly 8, I contacted the local rep and said that I didn't now want him to start beavers, as long as he could be moved onto cubs' waiting lists (and didn't have to start at the bottom again).

She put me in contact with a cub unit (not that local, we'd not previously considered) who currently only have 10 boys and would be prepared to let him start after Easter. We went for a "trial" visit which DS loved but I have some reseravations and don't know if I am just being silly.

Ought to say up front I am a brownie leader so probably had pre-conceptions about the meeting, but am trying very hard not to compare the 2 or to think how I would have run the meeting.

My gripes were

• although the meeting was meant to start at 6.30, everyone just sat around in the entrance hall (literally doing nothing) until at 6.40 one of the leaders decided she'd better unlock the main hall (so we didn't get going until 6.45)

• the main leaders are in their 50s - which is not a problem in itself - but they both seemed very tired and like they were just going through the motions without any great enthusiasm.

• despite only 10 boys they had 4 helpers which resulted in the adults doing a lot of "stuff" that I would have expected the boys to have done (or at least tried) themselves

• most of the activities they told DS they do were very sedentary arts and crafts based (although they do go on camp with much bigger linked scout unit). I was hoping for something a bit more active.

• other than the boys wearing uniform (the adults weren't) there was nothing about the meeting that said "scouts" - no e.g. opening or closing

• the meeting consisted of explaining the activity, doing the activity and clearing up (mostly by adults, with no particular "encouraging" the boys to help). The activitiy was not sufficiently timeconsuming (IMO) to warrant having a whole meeting spent on it, and the boys were getting restless by the end.

I do accept that I only sat through 1 meeting, so it's hard to get a fair representation - but equally since they'd suggested that night as a trial, that it should have been a "typical" meeting. My gut feel is that I really don't want DS to go there but if he doesn't, there is no knowing when DS might get a place somewhere else (and he's desperate to join cubs). DH suggested sending him for a short while and taking him out if I'm still not happy, but that doesn't sound like a fair solution for DS or the cub pack.

So am I being silly ... should I just send him and see how he gets on?

If you're not happy, could you not try the woodcraft folk instead? There's probably one locally.

As a Beaver Leader, I would say go with your gut. It can be a problem with older leaders as they can sometimes lose a bit of enthusiasm (apologies to the oldies! I know it doesn't always happen we have some very experienced, active leaders in our Group).

Have a look on www.scouts.org.uk for the basics on how a meeting should be run and take it from there. Could you volunteer to help out?

Hope it helps.

There is a huge variance between different cub packs (and Beavers and Scouts). Our local one spends at least some of each session on rowdy games, many sessions are at least partly out of doors, and crafts are not done every week.

Also check what they do about camps. I would expect a good group to have at least one camp a year.

It's worth shopping around to find one that you think would suit your DS.

I would go with your instincts and find another pack. My DS hated the first cubs he joined but loved the second one I found and is about to go to Scouts.

I know there is a huge variance in what Cub camps do, but I think this one sounds a bit rubbish, which is probably why the numbers are low.

It doesn't sound massively interesting for the kids.

could he not join your brownie unit?

My thoughts for what they're worth having had 3 sons go through Cubs (one there at the moment):

If your son wants to go, that would probably swing it for me. He doesn't know that other packs do more exciting things. This might be exciting enough for him.

You will hate me saying this since you already volunteer at Brownies, but maybe you could get involved and jazz the meetings up a bit?

I (and all 3 of my boys) hate the opening and closing ceremonies. It always makes me feel like some sort of weird cult is going on. Silly, I know, but an opening and closing ceremony does not make for a good pack, and vice versa.

Could your son join this pack but keep his name down for a pack nearer to home (you don't have to say you think this pack is lame, just emphasize the ease of getting to Cubs or the importance of him mixing with local kids) or is that not allowed?

We don't have many options locally for cubs. Our most local unit meets on a night he can't do. He's on 2 other waiting lists (neither particularly local), but neither is prepared (able) to tell me when he's likely to get a place.

I'd be loathe to help out more than occasionally as I'm already heavily involved with brownies. And tbh 4 leaders for 10 boys should be plenty.

(I also wondered about them having low numbers as everywhere else is heavily oversubscribed though they did say they'd recently had quite a few boys move up to scouts).

Maybe your DH could help out rather than you.

What was ds's opinion of the meeting? Did he emjoy what he did, or did he think it a bit lame too?

I imagine the rules are similar to guiding in that once he is enrolled it is easier to switch packs, and he should be allowed to 'jump' the waiting list or other packs as an enrolled member.

You might consider this to be dishonest if you go into it with this mindset.... Or it might turn out to be the best thing for your son.

DS enjoyed the meeting. But basically the meeting involved making 1 item which caught his imagination. He was bouncing round the hall by the end as he was bored of sitting (child with too much energy which I don't think this cub pack will help to expel). I do suspect that a lot of the attraction was novelty factor and he'd get bored quickly.

DH's work hours would make it very difficult for him to help out (actually thinking about it, DH's work hours would make it very difficult for me to help out ) - and I suspect he would have a major personality clash with the "main" leader anyway!

I wouldn't enrol him just to switch packs (that feels wrong somehow). Same way as I wouldn't put him in there for a short time while I wait for "something better" to come up. I'm not sure that "rule" applies when its local units anyway - it's more intended for children who move to different parts of the country.

I'd try and get more info from the other packs - surely they must have the ages of current cubs so they'll have a vague idea of when each cub is due to move up to scouts.

On and and look at other packs.

But PLEASE don't mention the leader's age like that. A crap leader is a crap leader. Being in their 50s -(50s- ffs!)- has absolutely nothing to do with the crapness.

You are right seeker and I apologise. My issue was their lack of energy and enthusiasm rather than their age (I do realise you can get both good and bad leaders at any age).

I too would try to speak to other Pack Leaders and ask about when there might be a vacancy / how far down the waiting list your ds would be.
Like Brownie Packs, Cub Packs vary hugely, and this doesn't sound very inspiring at all.

I might be biased as my youngest dc is about to move up to Scouts, and I've been a parent of cubs at such a fantastic pack for 8 years. Maybe it's given me high expectations, but I think, from what you describe, the leaders there have very low expectations, which is sad.
I would try to speak to your local DC though about the fact you've been so long on the Beavers waiting list - all Districts are supposed to "share" waiting lists to get as many youngsters as possible into meeting, and not sitting on waiting lists for years.

This is interesting. DS1 tried Beavers today, I had been led to believe there would be a wiating list but I was told there is about 8 regulars and some others that come and go. There didnt seem to be an opening and closing but I didnt know about this. DS1 is most excited about the badges as he is very into Certificates etc and the leader says he isnt really into that. However, he had a great time and apparently took part in everything.

To be honest it was a relief not to try something and have to sign a contract and pay some money and commit to a term or whatever. They were very very laid back.

If your son enjoyed I think go with the flow.

oh and we are sea scouts if that makes any difference whatsoever.

Depends on the kid, really. I have a DS (nervous rowdy maniac) at a club like mixedmama describes. He loves it. And laid back style is fine by me, too.

If I were OP, I would enrol him with an eye to moving him later if it still seems unsatisfactory, and am surprised that's such a no-no in OP's eyes. I'm sure they'd rather have his subs for a limited period than never at all.

Have you seen your local Cubs in action? How does it compare to this one?

As you waited for a couple of years for Beavers with no place coming up, I'd assume they believe they are helping you by diverting you to another pack with vacancies.

You could go back to say that you are only interested in the local pack and the more distant one does not work for you. But then you do take you chances on the waiting list again.