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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

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Original poster

The fine line between pushing and encouraging

24 replies

Toddlerone · 29/12/2011 22:22

It breaks my heart that DS, who's only 7, wants to give up guitar. His 2 teachers so far have told me he's extremely talented. He's been having lessons for a year but never wants to practice during the week. Piano is a different story. He's been doing it for just as long, also very talented but enjoys it a million times more and practices constantly without prompting. I'd love him to persevere with the guitar but how do I do this? He is going to have another term of guitar lessons starting in January, just once a week for 30 minutes. He said he didn't want to, I told him that if he just gave it a go for the term I would pay him £1 per lesson in addition to his pocket money. Is this the complete wrong way to go about it? I just can't bare to let him waste such a talent when he is not sporty or artistic. Music is such a gift but I do understand you have to want to do it... Oh I don't know!!

OP posts:

suebfg · 29/12/2011 22:28

I think he either has the heart for it or he doesn't and paying him some extra money is just going to make it feel more like a chore. He's not giving up on music but prefers piano to guitar. They say that practice makes perfect, so why not encourage his love of piano rather than pushing something he's lost interest in.

He might come back to guitar in his own time.

AChickenCalledKorma · 29/12/2011 22:29

Honestly? Maybe guitar just isn't his instrument. If he's practising the piano with enthusiasm, I'd let him give up the guitar and concentrate on piano. He may well pick up a second instrument (of a different sort) later on.

(Also I'm very jealous that he practises the piano without prompting. DD1 plays really nicely but getting her to sit down and concentrate is nightmarish!)

harbingerofdoom · 29/12/2011 22:32

You are making a seven year old play guitar!

Wind up

RandomMess · 29/12/2011 22:35

He can come back to the guitar when he wants to!!!!

Honestly it's for more useful musically for him to learn the piano - will give him skills transferable to any insstrument he fancies in the future.

Music at this age should be fun and enjoyable.

Haziedoll · 29/12/2011 22:40

He is very young and it's great that he loves the piano. Guitar is very hard we were going to start ds at 7 but advised to wait until he is 9. He is doing ukele instead and really enjoying it might wait until he is grade 1 level before we consider switching.

Original poster

Toddlerone · 30/12/2011 08:28

Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them. Just to clarify one point, DS asked for a guitar over a year ago, he asked for guitar lessons, in fact he's still happy with having lessons, just doesn't want to work on it by himself. It's just the fact that he's so talented, otherwise of course I would just let it go without question but perhaps that's exactly what I need to do and hope that he wants to take guitar up again in a year or two.

OP posts:

RandomMess · 30/12/2011 13:01

I would let it go I wonder if it's because it sounds to him like he is achieving more with playing the piano?

I'm sure when he is a teen he will drive you insane with constand guitar practice with amps on full

Original poster

Toddlerone · 30/12/2011 13:38

RandomMess I think you might be right there. He's achieved so much with the piano and yet, with the guitar it is just chords after chords and then some more chords. I also feel his teachers have not been able to inspire him. Certainly the latest teacher he had I think he was probably a good musician but not much of a teacher, certainly not a teacher of kids, and he didn't know how to make the lessons fun. If my DS wasn't talented I probably wouldn't care, I just find it very hard to let him give up something he's clearly good at, but I guess he can always pick in up again in a year or two.

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AChickenCalledKorma · 30/12/2011 13:44

How about adjusting your thinking, so that it doesn't feel like he's "giving up". Just taking a break from a teacher that isn't inspiring him.

Keep the guitar, keep it lying around where he can pick it up and fiddle with it and definitely keep up the piano lessons so that he's continuing his musical development. He has heaps of time to get going on the guitar again when he feels motivated.

RaspberryLemonPavlova · 30/12/2011 16:32

I'd definitely agree with Korma, think of it as a break. Sometimes they need to find out for themselves that they miss something.

Also, despite him asking, it may still be the wrong instrument for him. Please don't it let it put you off him trying something else in the future.

Orchestral instruments are great because once your child has some skill there should be some bands he can play in and that really encourages them.

Maryz · 30/12/2011 16:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Toddlerone · 30/12/2011 19:32

Maryz I did try that. Problem is, I am not musical, far from it, I am tone deaf and don't know anything at all about music. However, I could tell that the lessons were boring and my DS wasn't inspired. I suggested to the teacher maybe they could try some simple well known songs and I think he found that a bit offensive; he said it's impossible to play a tune if he doesn't know the chords! I do not think my DS can sing but he hasn't really tried that yet. It is very very difficult to pin down the issue and how to help my DS when I am so ignorant when it comes to music. Thinking of it as a break makes me feel a little more positive about it though!

OP posts:

RandomMess · 30/12/2011 20:09

As he gets older he will be able to pick tunes out for himself and teach himself to play. Piano as it teaches you to read 2 clefs simultaneously is just fab and in piano you actually learn chords so all the building blocks are there whatever he wants to play in the future.

Maryz · 30/12/2011 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Toddlerone · 30/12/2011 21:54

Yes I agree. We'll change teachers for the forthcoming term and then take it from there. Thank you all for your kind advice.

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ZZZenAgain · 30/12/2011 22:57

If he is only playing accords, it will be boring after playing piano for a year. He doesn't just have to play accords though. There is a lot of different kinds of music for the guitar. I like some of the things Maria Linnemann has composed. They are not difficult to play. Probably difficult to play very well of course but he might like that type of playing, the effect is a bit more like the piano IFYSWIM.

A lot of folk music involves finger picking. I am sure there is something somewhere that would appeal to him

However 2 teachers in a year and so on is unsettling and if he wants to stop now because he love the piano, I would let him

ZZZenAgain · 30/12/2011 22:58

oops sorry about the tipos

CURIOUSMIND · 31/12/2011 17:49

Why it has to be a guitar! I suggest you let your DS choose his own second instrument. Make sure he loves the sound and the way how it works.

confidence · 31/12/2011 21:37

A few things here, from a piano teacher with wide experience overseeing teaching of other instruments:

7 is very young to be learning the guitar. There are physical constraints that make it a difficult instrument for a child of that age unless they are exceptionally big and long-limbed.

If a child that young does learn the guitar, they CERTAINLY shouldn't be starting with chords, which involved a whole extra bunch of coordination and stretch issues over playing single-note tunes. In fact I don't think I've ever heard of a guitar teaching starting children that young on chords. I strongly suspect you are right in yout appraisal of the guitar teacher and he really has no idea of an appropriate way to teach little ones.

The piano is one of the most valuable instruments a young child can learn. They learn coordination; they learn to read both clefs; they learn to hear the scale properly because you can't play out of tune; they learn about harmony and conceiving of several lines of music at once in realtime. They get a crucial basis for composition, arranging, conducting and studio work if they ever want to do any of those things - even if they don't go very far with the piano itself.

After a few years' grounding in the piano, he'll find it very easy to pick up playing chords on the guitar any time he wants.

You are looking at this all the wrong way. You have a talented kid who not only wants to learn the piano - the best way to foster his talent at the moment - but actually WANTS to practise. You don't know how lucky you are. Later on down the line he may pick up the guitar again, or he may want to learn an orchestral or band instrument, and again he'll find this much quicker and easier with a few solid years of piano behind him.

Original poster

Toddlerone · 01/01/2012 10:22

Confidence I appreciate your thoughtful answer and it's actually helped me see this with some perspective. It's really difficult to make the right call here when I know zilt about music. Yes, my DS has been playing the piano for over a year now and practices every single day without fail, several times a day in fact, and I have never ever had to ask him to do it. In fact, I sometimes need to ask him to put the headphones on because it's before 8am!! Okay, my head is clearer now, thank you all for taking the time to reply. Really really appreciate it!

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AChickenCalledKorma · 01/01/2012 16:55

Toddlerone your DS is a star.

My nine year old daughter is learning piano. She plays very nicely, with expression and has a good musical ear.

Can I get her to practise every day?

Not likely!!!

She is so conscientious about practically everything else she does, but she finds making mistakes very annoying, so will find any excuse under the sun to avoid sitting down at the keyboard and actually playing the thing. I can't describe how frustrating it is.

They do say that the difference between being a decent amateur musician and a top performer is, quite simply, thousands of hours of practise. Cherish the fact that your son loves to play the piano and see where it leads him!

PushyDad · 02/01/2012 00:28

My DS plays the violin and piano seriously in that he is required to practice daily. We also let him do drums for fun. He has a weekly lesson which he enjoys but he rarely touches the drum kit he has at home and that is fine with us.

Maybe you should let your DC make the guitar his fun instrument. Once the pressure to practice is off then maybe he'll enjoy it more and perhaps one day he'll see it as a serious instrument.

Colleger · 02/01/2012 17:33

I'd say that the fact your son is immersed in his piano is far more important than learning the guitar. If you are interested in him developing as a musician then the piano is key.

In the musical world the guitar is not seen as an instrument that is worth pursuing at such an early age. It has little prominence in the classical world and he'd be better of learning a wind or string instrument. I'm saying this, not so that he'll give it up but so that you can see that it really isn't that important. How talented is he exactly? I'm sure he is but there is good and then there is talented and if he is only good but being made to practice because a teacher thinks he is something special when he is not then that would be a great shame.

gettingalifenow · 03/01/2012 09:14

It depends what you think hr might do with his music... If you have plans for a secondary school scholarship, for example, he would need a second instrument. Or if you'd like him to enjoy ensemble work, then there are some good guitar ensembles in some counties.
An orchestral second instrument might open up more opportunities - playing in a county youth orchestra, for instance?
Personally, I'd not push him to keep with an instrument he doesn't love - there are plenty of instruments he will love.

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