Questions about learning the flute

[Dancergirl]

My dd who's 10 and in Year 6 has been learning to play the flute for about 2 years after trying piano and not getting on with it. She really loves the flute, it's definitely the instrument for her, however I'm a bit concerned about her progress.

She's having lessons at school and unfortunately she's now on her 3rd teacher in 2 years. The first one was ok but kept being late/missing lessons. The second teacher was fantastic, dd made good progress, but unfortunately she had to leave after a year to return to studying music therapy. The new teacher as of this term seems good and dd is happy. There was talk last year (with the 2nd teacher) of her starting to prepare for Grade 1. However this new teacher seems keen on Associated Board Music Medals (I'd never heard of them before now).

I just feel that these medals are less well known than grades and won't be regarded as highly. And I feel that shouldn't she have taken or be taking Grade 1 by now? It seems a very slow process and the school lessons aren't cheap.

I don't know if I should talk to the teacher again or find a private teacher or what?

Does your DD have group lessons or by herself? Depending on the teaching (and the other children in the group) it can take longer for a child to progress if they're learning in a class situation. But 2 years isn't overly long to get to grade 1 standard especially bearing in mind the situation regarding her teachers.

I'm not convinced about Music Medals myself but they might be useful if you have a child who doesn't want to sit exams (e.g. suffers from nerves) but still likes to see some tangible reward and be assessed to be a particular level. This website give more info. If you're not convinced talk to the teacher.

If you're looking to go private expect to pay around £12-£15 per half hour lesson.

She has lessons by herself and has done from the start. I don't see any reason why dd would have difficulty taking exams - she's done ballet exams and festivals so is used to being a bit nervous. She's always done well.

I think the teacher was plugging the medals as you can do them at any time and he likes the ensemble element. Out of interest shellingpeas, why do you not like the medals?

Having done piano exams myself as a child, I would prefer dd to take the traditional approach and work through the grades.

I think the medals have merit if you have children who don't like formal assessments. They also include ensemble playing which is valuable. So if a pupil falls apart under exam conditions through nerves but can play really well then medals are a good thing. But...

I'm not keen on the teacher assessment part. I appreciate that the teachers get appropriate training and that assessments are moderated. However as a teacher I wouldn't want to be under the pressure to assess children myself - I'd much rather have an independent examiner do this. You do leave yourself open to parental displeasure pressure if you have to make assessments yourself which don't agree with the parents' perception. Speaking from experience a parent without musical knowledge may not always be aware of exactly whereabouts their child fits into the ability range - for example - if Jemima started the same time as Alfie surely they should both be silver medals at the same time. But Jemima practises every day and Alfie doesn't; or Jemima has musical parents who supervise practice but Alfie doesn't; or Jemima has a natural talent at the instrument and Alfie doesn't etc etc. I have been asked to enter pupils for grades for which they're not ready, because their friend is sitting that grade and they started the same time. (I didn't do so but have lost the pupil!)

The other issue is public perception. Most people know that grade 1 is a beginner and grade 8 is pretty good. Not so many people are aware of what the medals mean as far as practial peformance ability goes.

Personally (and this is just my opinion) I'd stick with the tried and tested. I'm a bigger fan of Trinity Guildhall exams for the early grades than ABRSM - Trinity plays more towards the pupil's strengths and has more choice - but again, just my opinion!

sorry to hijack your thread but my DD11 wants to learn the flute and I was wondering if you could give any recommendations on which flute to buy her. DSs old clarinet teacher has told us which ones she would use but as she is in the US the models she is coming up with are not available now we are back in the UK

My dd has shared music lessons on the flute & has been learning for just over a year, she has just been entered for Grade 1. So unless your dd never practices I would say very slow progress.

pimmsgalore can you hire through your local councils school music service to see if she gets on with the flute first & then you can go to a music shop & try lots out when she can play a few tunes?

bizzieb33 she has tried some out at school but they have no hire instruments (its a private school) she said she can play some simple tunes already (on her friends at school) so I will probably take her to the local music shop when she is on exeat weekend and not doing Saturday school etc next weekend.

Pimms - it depends on how much you want to spend! A good quality beginner will be around £300 - this is one which will take them up to grade 5 or so. Recognised brands such as the Trevor James TH10X (around £300) or Yamaha 211 (around £500) models are reliable and do have a re-sale value too, should your DD decide not to continue. You can pick up second hand ones for sensible prices.

Other brands to consider are Jupiter and Gemeinhardt.

You can pick up flutes for as little as £100 but I would be cautious about as they tend to not be as reliable in terms of intonation (pitch) and longevity.

Pimms my daughter has a yamaha which is great it has a lovely sound & will go up to grade 8 if needed!

I don't know if this applies to private schools but school age children can get vat off of an instrument if bought through schools which reduced a yamaha to £400

Hmm, I spoke to a couple of private teachers and they agreed it was slow progress. One teacher said they should really be taking Grade 1 within a year generally. She sounded brilliant but unfortunately she doesn't come home to teach and at the moment I don't think I could commit to driving somewhere else after school.

It's just convenient dd having lessons at school but I feel I've paid a lot of money for lessons over the past 2 years with little gain.

It depends on your reasons for wanting her to learn are really! There are plenty of benefits to a musical education other than exam certificates and I personally would much rather my child was having fun. I personally only did Grades 2, 5 & 8 - it never did me any harm & I still enjoyed playing in orchestras and concerts!

Totally agree with pugs.

Exams are nothing to do with learning an instrument. Most professional musicians didn't bother with them. They can be useful as a goal if you don't have enough opportunities to perform in concerts, but they aren't the be all and end all. Some orchestras or programmes will want a grade 5 or grade 8 distinction, OR a note from the teacher saying the student is on this sort of level.

I played the flute, many many years ago (a Yamaha, which is still going strong hmm, 30 years later!).

I started at 11 years, skipped straight to Grade 3 a couple of years later, and then did 5, 6 and 8.

Grades are useful for applying to orchestras etc, as many want a grade 5 etc - the county youth wanted a grade 8.

Some music teachers don't think that grades 1 and 2 are worth doing. I did grade 3 after playing the flute for 2 years if that helps but grades 1 and 2 were not around 30 years ago.
Sounds as if part of the problem is the changing of teachers and therefore an inconsistent approach as each tutor may have different aims.
Are there any music centres e.g junior wind band type group that your dd could join locally as playing with others is a good way to improve playing skills? This also provides a reason for doing grades e.g. for junior group beginners just need to be able to play, then there are groups for grade 2+, grade 5+ and grade 8!
However to repeat the point made by an earlier poster some professional musicians have not actually taken any exams. James Galway is widely acknowledged as one of the best flute players in the world but he has not taken any grade exams - he learnt to play through the Irish flute bands and passed auditions for the best orchestras on the basis of his playing ability!

Hmm. Is she still enjoying playing and progressing? Is she playing in any ensembles?

I suspect the flute is very popular and individual lessons at school will be rare TBH. Worth thinking of private lessons if you can afford them, the price may not be that much different over all (we pay £12 for 30 mins piano privately and school lessons are £10 for 20mins in a pair...)

With my old grey haired BTDT hat on I think exams are OK but not the be all and end all at all. However county music service groups/area ensembles /flute choirs are essential if there isn't much group music going on at school. Playing with others is what it is really about.

Yes some ensembles require a certain standard to access some orchestras etc but round here a teacher recommendation is enough to get you to audition and then you have to prove it (everyone is auditioned for central groups)

My DS1 plays the flute. He is 11 and about to do Gr5. I think the grades have been very helpful for him as they have given him a goal and a feeling of progress. He plays in the school orchestra which lets him make music with his friends and allows him to hide at the back so he's not the centre of attention. His teacher started him off on flute basics, which I thought was a good first book (but then I can't read music, so what do I know!!). I agree that the grades are not the be all and end all and enjoyment is the key. But going through the grades is good practice for auditions...

He plays a Yamaha that is 30yrs+ which belonged to my DH. It's been through a lot - left on buses, trodden on, picked up by the dog and it still works well (with a bit of annual tlc from the music shop technician!)

He also plays the sax and it was easy for him to pick up as the fingering is similar, just at a different angle. So if the flute doesn't work out.....

Dd spent a fruitless year of flute lessons in secondary school. By then she was preparing for grade 4 after private lessons during the primary years.
It was definitely a mistake to opt for in-school lessons. There was no feedback whatsoever, the lessons were often clipped short if the previous lesson over-ran and sometimes doubled up with another pupil despite paying for one-to -one.
You get more for your money if you go to a private teacher. She switched back to private lessons for two years and soon was doing really well.

She began with a Trevor James flute which had a lovely tone and she liked that it was lighter than most others. She now has a Miyazawa which would be the first thing she would rescue in a fire.

DD1 (14) very musical (wants to teach it) plays several instruments, currently having tuition in 3. One instrument tutored at a Saturday music school, one at school - 30 minute individual, one 30 minute private.

So has come across a variety of teachers.
All have been very different, some favouring grades more than others.

Ive heard that a grade a year is about "average",

She did start Flute at secondary school, 20 minute individual lessons. Did Grade 1 after about 6 months (merit). But the teacher was quite pushy with grades, not especially a good teacher. She gave up flute after 2 years, anyway. In my opinion it should have been sooner, but as it had been her dream instrument since little, did not want to admit she had got it wrong.

By far the Best teachers are those at music school. They are encouraging all round music learning, reforming, duets, ensembles and playing for enjoyment. DD had grade 5 in her first instrument when she started there, but has not taken and is not even working towards any since. Although she can play grade 7 pieces.

The teacher she has for the instrument she learns at school also does not do much in the way of grades. She has not taken any on that instrument since starting over 3 years ago. But she plays in an ensemble with others at grade 4/5 standard.

Her private tuition is with a teacher who is also excellent, and likes grades.

I guess what I am trying to say is that some kids suit different methods of tuition to others. And the lower grades can be quite easy once you have done some on one instrument. But constantly learning pieces for the purpose of grades alone can be quite soul destroying.

Also, if it's your DDs first instrument, she is learning to read music and some theory basics at the same time. Just a thought, buy could this be what she is struggling with? Is she musical generally - Can she sing in tune? Does she have a good sense of timing?

The thing about exams is that they are a help when DCs want to join a local ensemble/music centre. The OPs DD after two years of flute lessons could very easily join a windband and usually (at least round here) they are expected to have grade 1 under their belts.

The best suggestion I can make is that the OP contacts the Music Advisory service for the county and enquire about music centres then see if her DD can join without grade 1. (It might be that she's actually ready for grade 2)

Apart from the enjoyment for her DD, joining a windband or orchestra has an added advantage of helping the OP to make contact with other parents and networking so as to find a good teacher. You find out these things by word of mouth very often and music centre ensembles are terrific practice, good fun and very sociable.

Why don't you look at the grade 1 exam syllabus and see if she already knows the scales or has attempted some of the pieces. You can enter her yourself if you wish.

Here is the link:

www.abrsm.org/regions/fileadmin/user_upload/syllabuses/flute0110.pdf

wrt buying a flute - for a first instrument I'd go Yamaha every time. Reliable, reasonably priced and good quality. Make sure you ask about buying it through the school though, as you can often get a pretty good discount. Stay away from Trevor J James flutes...they just fall apart.

And don't forget VAT free instrument purchase.