Grade 1 Violin failure

[Honeymum]

I've just had a text from my DD's violin teacher to say she's failed grade 1.

She has been with him for almost 2 years and has practiced regularly, particularly since we've been preparing for the exam (since last September). To my untrained ear the pieces sounded fine. After the exam the teacher (who accompanied her on the piano) said she had done well and he was pleased.

The scales and sight reading are done with the examiner only so he didn't hear these.

By text he said she talked through the pieces but I will get full story tomorrow.

I wanted to know how common it is to fail grade 1? Is it DD or the teacher? Should I try to switch?

Thanks

[elphabadefiesgravity]

Yes I agree if she didn;t even attempt the sightreading that is a huge chunk off the marks.

Stopping and starting the pieces and commenting I have made a mistake more than once too would give low marks.

I faltered in in one of my Grade 8 pieces the examiner told me to carry on from where I left off and I did. I JUST about passed but I had a pretty good second & third piece that made up for the first.

I used to have a students that didn;t like male examiners. It is something they either have to get used to or stop doing exams.

[Milliways]

My DD used to fall apart in her exams - burst into tears in one and scraped through with 104 or similar. She still plays now (age 20) for pure fun.

I failed my grade 2 violin (first exam I took), and my teacher thought the examiner marked me harder as I was older (13). Apparently I didn't have enough expression in the music, which is a bit harsh for Grade 2! Anyway, I took & passed grade 4 the next term, so all is not lost (and I still play now).

I second Tangle's idea about group playing, a great confidence booster. I do hope your DD is not too upset and caries on playing.

[LilyBolero]

Sorry she got a disappointing result.

As a general rule, stopping and starting is the big no-no in music exams - mistakes are not disastrous unless it upsets the flow of the music, or the structure of the piece. But stopping and starting obviously means you don't present the piece as a whole. Continuity is key really.

Not attempting the sightreading was a bad mistake, as that will have got her 0/21. If she'd even played 1 or 2 notes (even if wrong) they would have had to give her at least 7 marks for attempting it.

If you look up on google "These Music Exams" there is a pdf publication by the Board with the marking criteria included - p39. The whole document is interesting, but that page will give you a description of what sort of playing gets what sort of mark.

I don't think 2 years is unreasonable to get to Grade 1 tbh - there is a lot of technique needing to be established, plus music reading, establishing a sense of rhythm. I think parents often think progress should be faster, but there is a huge step from 1st lesson to Grade1.

If you wanted to appeal (and it's probably not worth it tbh), you would have to write to the Board, with grounds for appeal, and they might let her retake the exam (they wouldn't just change the mark).

[LilyBolero]

catinthehat - I believe that they can be marked if they prepare incorrect pieces, as long as the standard is comparable (and the teacher would get a stiff letter!). But it's unlikely on the violin as there is a published 'Grade 1 pieces' book, so unless you did all the pieces from the same list, rather than 1 from each list, it would be hard to get the pieces wrong.

[Anaxagora]

This has reminded me how much I hate the exam system, especially for younger ones. The endless rehearsing of the same piece is just so stultifying - IMO it encourages perfectionist kids to be obsessive and anxious, and the happy-go-lucky ones to get bored and turned off with lessons and practice.

Dd2 is now learning the violin, and thankfully, thankfully her music school don't advise them taking any exams before grade 5. She learns a piece, practises/plays it for a few weeks, and then moves on to the next piece/s. They do lots of 'concerts' and lots of ensemble playing in addition to the individual lessons. The dc are progressing much faster because all their teaching is not centred around jumping through a bunch of very dull hoops to get a certificate.

[pigsinmud]

Well it depends Anaxagora. The exam system can be an amazing boost to confidence. My ds2 is able academically, but does not perform well in tests and therefore dreads school tests etc... He worries excessively, however he has realized he performs extremely well in his violin exams. The fact he has done 3 grades in 5 terms and got distinctions has given him confidence. He now believes he is good enough to join the local childrens orchestra. We hope that this music exam confidence will eventually pass over to school tests.

I'm going to defend music exams as my dh prepares pupils for them! It gives teachers a structure to work around. You learn the theory, scales etc.. Not many children are going to want to do scales for fun! If you want to be a professional musician I think you have to be a perfectionist ...

[LilyBolero]

I like the exams, because it means you have to get both pieces and scales to a high standard - just learning a piece for a couple of weeks and then moving on to another might be more fun, but means you never actually achieve a really high standard of playing. For some kids, exams are not good, but for most, they are a good discipline.

Having said that, the crucial thing is not to start preparing for the exam before the child is ready, otherwise it really does become torturous. But dd for example did 2 grade 1 exams this term (2 instruments) - on one instrument she really hated the piece she was given, so she switched it 2-3 weeks before the exam, and still did really well on it, because she was at the right standard of playing, so it didn't take her long to learn it (I think she learnt it in a day!). Normally I wouldn't advocate this though!!!!

[LilyBolero]

(should add am pro musician, so not just speaking from pov of a parent, but as musician and teacher as well).

[pushmepullyou]

It's such a fundamental thing to keep going if you make a mistake and to attempt everything that I honestly am amazed that the teacher hasn't drummed this in to her.

It doesn't sound that they are very well suited. Being a good teacher is not the same as being a good performer and it doesn't sound to me that he is the best teacher for your daughter.

I understand why you feel that you want to give him another chance, but if his teachning style and her learning style don't work well together I think I would be looking for a different teacher perhaps with more experience of dealing with children

[Tangle]

I'd agree with the pro-exam camp. All the boring bits (scales, arpeggios, sight reading, aural) are so critical to getting a strong foundation as an instrumentalist. Its hard enough to get kids to practice them when there's a reason to do it, but must be nigh on impossible if there's no real requirement. When I was learning I hated them, but once I got a bit further on I really started to appreciate the benefits in my playing and I'm still reaping the benefits today. Without an exam to prepare for I don't think I'd have had the discipline to do as much practice on scales, etc, as I did.

IMO, if a child winds up rehearsing the same pieces endlessly and getting bored then their exam preparation has been badly handled.

[ZZZenAgain]

how long is her lesson?

[DeWe]

I had a lovely examiner for grade 3 violin. He was really sweet, checking that everything was fine and I felt happy. I failed the exam and my teacher learnt that he was struck off the examiners' list because he hadn't passed more than a couple of people that year.
When I redid the exam I panicked and messed up on a few things I knew easily and had done right the previous term. I passed with 100. Phew.

[Bramshott]

I'm with Anaxagora re exams for littlies - don't see the point until about Grade 3 personally (which is where the wind syllabus used to start in any case).

Glad you had a useful chat with the teacher Honeymum.

[ZZZenAgain]

for variety alongside these exam pieces, maybe your dd would enjoy those fiddletime books. Do you know those? dd had fiddletime sprinters which had some nice pieces in it (dominant gene and chromatic cats I seem to rmeember and some classical pieces, nice mixture)but they have other books in that series, am not sure what would be the appropriate level for your dd. In that series they also have a book on scales which is nice but you need to work with the teacher through it, it is not a book a dc can simply work through at home without a teacher's input since it involves the teacher playing a piece and the dc improvising to it in a particular scale and some things like that. Ask your teacher what he thinks?

this series

Also maybe if sight reading is something she struggles with, you could do a page or half a page in a nice theory book every day. That would do it. Would take about 2 minutes and she can start with the easy stuff. You don't want her overwhelmed, just needs more fluency.

She should be able to join an ensemble after 2 years of lessons. It isn't about whether she has passed exams but whether she can play well enough, probably she can. She could play 3rd violin to get into the swing of it for example and work up to the more difficult parts when she has found her place in the group. She sounds chatty and sociable, i think she'd love it.

[ragged]

There are different ways to progress with music. I seem to know a lot of prof. musicians who have never taken an exam, some can't even read music. Obviously it's BETTER if you can read music. What I'm saying is that there are many credible paths to improvement and development. I'm self-teaching piano and No Way I will ever take an exam in it; that would not be enjoyable. I have no natural musical talent, so anything is a miracle achievement in my case.

Your poor DD, Honeymum.
DD is just starting to prepare for Grade 1 violin, so this thread has been a helpful read. I will definitely treat the exam as an experiment experience, I don't want "Grades" to be too important to either of us.

[ZZZenAgain]

sorry just seen "joggers" seems to be the first book in that series. Have not seen it so cannot judge whether it would be a good level for your dd atm. She could have something like that to learn new pieces for fun whatever takes her fancy after her regular practice. They come with a CD (probably too fast for her to accompany) but to get an idea of how things are supposed to sound could be useful.

If exams stress her out, I wouldn't bother with them if you are otherwise happy with her progress and the lessons. It all comes across as very prescriptive to me this exam syllabus and really in a short lesson, I think there is little time for a teacher to cover everything and allow for the dc's personality, some quirkiness on the part of the dc - and improvisation and so on. I think the important thing is to be clear in your own mind what your expectations are and to communicate these to the teacher. You could try setting some goals for the next 6 months, if relevant, maybe lengthen the lesson (say from 20 minutes to 30) so that there is time to cover everything you have agreed should be covered.

After 2 years of lessons I should think she can join an ensemble. She needs to be able to play the pieces not have necessarily passed certain exams. She sounds chatty and sociable. I am sure she would love something like that.

If you do definitely want to go down the exam route, I think you should be looking around for a different teacher. If she likes the teacher, practises willingly and makes good progress, I wonder if it is all that bad really.

[ZZZenAgain]

OMG rambling and repeating myself.... didn't sleep. sorry about that

[maggiethecat]

I agree with those who have said that you should work out what you would like for your daughter bearing her mind her personality etc.

Your are on the right track in trying to establish what went wrong and seeing how you can go forward whether it is with or without this teacher. Supporting her continuing to play will be invaluable and in time you probably won't even remember this episode much.

I'll add my point about exams - after dd did her grade 1 last year I thought that we would take a break from them and her teacher agreed that she would not have to do all of them. My view was that she was bored out of her mind with the slavish repetition of exam pieces although to be fair her teacher at the time did allow her to play grade 2 pieces alongside grade1, perhaps to relieve this. I thought she could play a wider repertoire and be more free in her enjoyment of playing without exam focus.

Problem is that as Lily and Tangle have said, scales, sightreading and aural testing are important elements of development and unless a teacher is creative and persistent in incorporating these elements into lessons they get left by the wayside.
Also, dd learns pieces very quickly and started to play grade 4 pieces but I would say that they were perhaps not learned to the same standard as for exam level.

For these reasons I asked the teacher to put her in for her exam and it's interesting to see how her pieces, although good before, are better. She certainly pays much more attention to things like dynamics.

In a nutshell, I think the exam syllabus has its strengths so don't write it off, even if you don't want dd to continue taking exams at the moment.

[Anaxagora]

Yy, I'm not disputed that exams have their place. And for some dc they can be extremely motivating.

I just find, having learnt an instrument outside the UK, where the whole exam structure doesn't exist at all, that I have been very struck by the extent to which musical education and instrumental learning is centred around grades. So people don't ask dc, "Oh, you play the cello, what kind of music do you enjoy playing, what are you playing at the moment?", they ask, "What grade are you on?" as if that was all there was to learning an instrument.

It just seems very reductive, and if it isn't working for your child, that seems like all the more reason to consider moving away from it. The notion that kids cannot or will not learn scales and sight-reading outside the exam structure is nonsense, otherwise children from non-UK countries where there is no equivalent of grade exams would be inferior instrumentalists, which is manifestly not the case.

[Sportsmum]

Just remember - the exam itself is only a snapshot of how they performed on the day itself. It doesn't necessarily mean that they can't play the instrument - it could mean that they had a bad day. You need to boost your child's confidence if they feel down about the exam, let them decide whether they want to continue to play, if indeed they want to take exams (some do - others don't) and what type of tunes they want to play. Be careful just playing for taking exams - too many people simply allow their students to lumber from one exam to another without increasing their repertoire. Depending on what areas of the exam they found difficult may be an indication that they would benefit from a different examining board - Trinity instead of ABRSM or vice versa. Don't write things off and be lead by your child. Music should be pleasurable for them and NOT a chore.

[maggiethecat]

I agree with much of what you say Anaxagora and Sportsmum. I was not suggesting that the OP continue with exams if she did not think it was right for her dd.

I do believe however that it is easy, as I have found, for lack of due attention to be given to scales, sightreading etc in some circumstances. A parent may have to be extra vigilant that these areas are being catered to.

[pigsinmud]

Absolutely exams are not the be all and end all. Dh has a few pupils who don't want to do exams ....you can bet they don't practise those scales though! Generally he thinks the exams give a good structure. He has taught at a dodgy uni music department in the past and was totally shocked at some of the pupils. They had grade 8, but were terrible - probably taught to pass an exam. This is his pet hate. He has taken on pupils whose previous teacher has obviously just taught them to pass the exam. They have done nothing else but practise those damn pieces etc.. Sometimes they can barely read music as have just learnt it by rote.

OP - your teacher is dodgy. He must have known she was not secure at sight-reading. Did he do some mock exams with her? Does he have any teaching qualifications? You can be a fantastic player and a crap teacher. Not all authors would make good english teachers. Time for a new teacher I think. Fresh start and all that.

[ragged]

DD's lesson group starts everybody off with Fiddletime Joggers, so not suitable (too basic) for someone who is nearly Grade 1. Sprinters or Runners might be ok.

[ImNotaCelebrity]

For sight reading, I recommend 'Improve Your Sight Reading Violin Grade 1' by Paul Harris, published by Faber Music. It has little rhythm exercises at each stage, and music interpretation and understanding questions, as well as the actual reading and playing of the notes. Each stage builds up gradually, so by the end of the book they're doing a standard equivalent to grade 1 sight reading. There's a book for each grade and for different instruments. It's far better than the 'Joining the Dots' series, in my opinion. Whether they're doing exams or not, they're still useful for sight reading improvement.

[Tangle]

I've heard from a few different sources that GB produces some of the best orchestral musicians in the world - in particular wrt their ability to sight read. The UK system must be doing something right!

Are exams the be all and end all of music? No, of course not.

Is an ability to read music essential to be able to participate and enjoy music? No - although it may limit your options as its a fairly essential skill for some areas such as chamber/orchestral music.

It is meant to be fun? Definitely - and if any child is trying to learn whilst deriving no pleasure then something's not right. But that's not to say it can be all pleasure if you want to get a solid foundation unless you have an extremely inspiring teacher who can make the mundane exciting.