Can I learn guitar together with dd (joint lesson) or is that going to be a disaster?

[ZZZenAgain]

JUst for fun - no deadly serious attainment plans. When we were on holiday recently, there were a whole bunch of old guys rocking up to the pier and playing guitar together. Anyone could join in and I found it great. So I can start now and by the time I retire, I'm up for that kind of thing!

WOndering about dd and I having a lesson togehter or is this not going to work? She already plays violin and started harp, sings in a good chor, sight reads etc and seems to have a good ear. She will learn way faster than me.

I can do none of that and don't have a good ear. Will I be so useless by comparison that it wouldn't work out?

Considering it as a companiable fun thing not planning on becoming the next great flamenco artist. Nothing would induce me to learn the violin, I know I couldn't do it but I thought the guitar seemed do-able.

What do you think? Dilusional?

actually reading my own post, it isn't going to work, is it? She'll be clicking on really fast and I won't have a clue what is going on...

Teacher looks quite a hunk mind... spanish

actually dh seems to be thinking of starting up a band. Lots of messages on the phone from other middle-aged lawyers about this.

Must be in the air atm

I'm thinking of getting DS1 to teach me the cello as he learns. :) Problem: cello too small for me...

Why not try it? Then if she does learn faster than you you can have lessons from her!

good for you LC

tbh I do not want dd to teach me the violin. In a million years, I could not do it.

I had a go at learning Sweet Home Alabama yesterday, apparently an "easy beginner" piece but I found it difficult. Dd was looking on worriedly, suggesting that I was perhaps not very musical. lol

I will give it a month or so of lessons maybe and then we could still have seperate lessons. I know I will be outshone.

Dh has got his band together it seems, or someone has. 6 middle-aged lawyers and accountants.... They're getting started with it on Saturday. Dd says she'll go along and keep an eye on it.

I'd say give it a go. Surely you can get some quick results from guitar to make it enjoyable?

I quite fancy taking up guitar or piano myself. In a moment of madness I thought when dd began violin that I might as well learn too but 2 years later I am glad that good sense prevailed. The child would have been utterly disgusted with my thickness.

Having a trial lesson tomorrow Maggie, so moment of truth.

I'm not sure I have much confidence in the teacher because he told me he does not agree with smaller guitars for children. Yet I have seen dd trying to play on our (adult) acoustic guitar at home and she can not get her fingers around the neck. So surely that cannot be right. You know how it is, getting the right teacher is so difficult.

Anyway just want to get an idea of what it is like but I think if we do go ahead, we may be looking at a different teacher. Will have to see how it goes, maybe it is great.

How is your dd coming along? Are you happier with this new teacher now and the work towards grades?

Good for you. Reminds me of a friend who recently took up piano again and says it brings her so much joy. I admit to being seriously tempted but I just don't think I am co-ordinated enough.

Have a go with teacher - although what he says might feel instinctively wrong it might be worth seeing how you actually get on.

Dd is fine - I think she will be happy as long as she is playing. She did grade one in June and did well but we are not focusing on exams at the moment. She still does grade pieces but without the slavish devotion to exam prep.

Confidence in teacher is so important. New teacher has different approach and one thing that I cannot get my head around is fact that she's undoing what dd has learned about holding left (violin) hand. She wants dd's wrist to be resting under the neck of the violin (rather than being somewhat perpendicular to it) and it just seems contrary to what most other teachers and the books say . The response given to my scepticism seemed a bit flimsy and I am left a bit doubtful.

Like you though I suppose we'll see......

when you say new teacher maggie, is this the third teacher now?

Finding it difficult to understand the left hand hold. This is more detailed an explanation than either dd or I have ever encountered. Warning: very detailed. Is this how dd is supposed to do it? See 6:27 where the instructor shows not to rest wrist on the underside of the violin neck :

Not sure if I understood correctly but if the teacher is saying she should do this, surely that is entirely wrong. How could that be? My dd had a tendancy to do this in the very beginning and I had to work on helping her get away from it.Look here, this is what we were told (just a quickie):

Aahh ZZZen. Yes this is third. You may recall first was fab but her professional playing commitments meant many periods of absence. Second one I had issues with but certainly nothing as fundamental as this.

Funnily, I looked yesterday at both of those videos you've linked. From the start of dd taking up violin I learned about the hold from her first teacher saying things like remember the balloon in your palm etc. So yesterday, unsettled by what she's now learning, I had a look on the web for some assurance but everything supports what dd was taught before and not this 'new' posture (which 6:27 of first video discourages).

I have really hoped that things would work out and was quite looking forward to not being so involved in dd's practice other than to listen to her and encourage her as by now good foundations sould really set in. But I cannot sit comfortably with this particular instruction - I think I'll come away questioning if dd is being shortchanged.
It's also disturbing the fact that teacher was Suzuki trained and would have been drilled on posture, hold etc.

argh violin give me a break

I am having my own problems with this as although I do likethe teacher and find her a huge improvement in teaching style on our ifrst teacher (who like your second was Russian trained, so perhaps similar approach?), I am not happy with a few things atm such as the lessons being shorter than what I pay for (other thread on here), choice of pieces and so on. I feel our teacher has too many pupils, too little time which leads to lessons being cut short, her forgetting a lot of things, such as bringing a new piece, some music theory she had meant t oteach it. I do like her but I get a bit tense about things like this and dd is stressed about it atm which I really do not want (stressed as in unhappy). Wondering what to do about it. It is so hard to find a new teacher and know whether s/he is right for your dc after a trial lesson.

I'm sorry Maggie, I am certainly no expert, but if the teacher is telling dd to hold her wrist flat like that against the neck of the violin, I think you will need to change (again). Thing is I believe it is fundamental to being able to move your fingers across the neck to reachthe string furthest away and down towards the body of the violin that you specifcally do not have that hold. Otherwise, how will dd be able to move up and down the top strings?

I have been toying with Suzuki (mainly because there is an American trained teacher who uses that method (we are overseas so limited due to that) but since dd did not begin with Suzuki and I have heard a lot of criticism of it over the years,I am unsure about it. Wish it was not an ongoing worry tbh. I agree with you there, nice to step back, right back out of the whole thing beyond paying for it.

It sounded as if things were going so well for your dd and her teacher. I know there will always be issues so I suppose when you put everything in the scales you have to determine if overall the balance is more positive thank negative (don't mean to sound trite but I think it's the best you can do.)

Things that I would like to have (off the top of my head): insistence & good approach to posture, hold etc, teaching good technique, interested in dd (so knowing where dd is at from week to week, not forgetting pieces, not asking a million times 'how old is dc?' as a few examples), thought given to choice of repertoire. Am I being unrealistic?

I am inclined to agree with you - mechanically it must be hard to reach with your fingers if your palm is 'flat' against the violin neck. I want to believe that perhaps I have misunderstood what she is asking dd to do or even that somewhere there is evidence for supporting that this style is effective. But I think not. It just seems very irresponsible. Teacher, I understand plays to a fairly high standard professionally but I hear that even very good musicians can manage to get away with bad posture, hold. But to teach a child this way seems wrong.

The thing about Suzuki is that you'll find that there are mixed opinions on teaching method even within Suzuki and I believe that some teachers even use a fusion of methods. I know one teacher who will use Suzuki principles alongside traditional teaching if a parent does not want to opt into the stricter approach (inc group lesson). I'd say speak with the teacher and see how your concerns are met.

How do you know a teacher is right after a trial session? You can't - even if your instincts are right they can be turned upside down once the teaching starts - too many elements involved.

Thanks maggie, appreciate your advice. Well we are going to observe one ofthose Suzuki group lessons tomorrow. The teacher seemed open to using a mixed approach since dd has the basics really and is used to sight reading so maybe it is a bit odd to switch mehtods now. I'm open minded about it. She said, see how dd reacts to observing the group session tomorrow. They do this every second weekend and then we can discuss conditions etc, have a trial lesson, take it from there.

I am still planning to have a word with current teacher and see if things can be resolved so I am more comfortable with it but not right now, think she is under a lot of stress just at the moment. I'll wait a couple of weeks (she has a lot of concerts on ) and when they are over , I'll try and diplomatically ask if we can discuss things a bit.

Do you observe your dd's lesson? Could you do that? Then at least you would know how she is teaching and what exactly is happening re posture?

When we first were told by a nursery school music teacher that dd seemed musical she suggested we try Suzuki and we did sit in on a group class when she was quite young. She stayed focused throughout it and even seemed interested. Problem was that at the time I could not commit to group lesson bcos of work and Suzuki was ruled out.

Recently, when we were considering changing second teacher we met Suzuki teacher who was enthusiastic and seemed good with children but it's the group commitment on a Sunday (2-3 per month) which we would struggle with. Plus like your dd ours had already started playing, sight reading etc. I also was concerned about how dd might receive the twinkle variations (thought she might think it 'babyish' or even regressive). Although I appreciate that there is a lot to be learned/taught through the variations my concern was that she might feel a bit demotivated.

A good teacher would probably be capable of fine tuning the teaching to suit your dd's ability. But there are teachers and then there are teachers...

I suspect that you are a bit like me - would prefer continuity rather than switching around. I certainly think that young children like stability. If issues can be resolved for you that would be good. (BTW, I also have issue with being shortchanged with time or it being measured so tightly that there is more take than give).

Dd's teacher said from outset that she prefers that parents do not sit in and I have come to realise that she is not very open to suggestion. It's a weird situation and I suppose that it's very telling that I do not feel comfortable to ask her to sit in for observation.

your first teacher sounded best tbh maggie. Is there any chance of going to her for a lesson and asking her to check dd's progress? Honestly I really feel dd should not be acquiring that pancake hand hold (as I believe it is called).

I think to be fair to our current teacher , I really have to gently bring up with her what exactly my concerns are and see if we can resolve them. However, there is no harm I think in finding out what other options might be available and if dd is strongly attracted to anyone. Asking around and phoning about, I do find it difficult to know who might be right.

I know someone asked why if I was not planning on dd being the next child prodigy it really mattered who taught her (different thread on here) but I have found it makes a huge difference to progress, motivation of the dc etc.

I will see how Suzuki goes today. We are just obsreving the group lesson. The teacher did say she was classically trained and came to suzuki when she was already teaching via observing another teacher's lesson. She could therefore teach either or both I should think. If it looks good, we will see about a trial lesson (time permitting) but I do plan to contact another teacher who was recommended to me and try to get an idea of different teaching styles/aims.

Tbh though since I know nothing much about music, I find it so hard to know what is the right way forward. Dd does absolutely love the instrument though, so like you I do feel we (I) have to plug on with it.

guitar was a blast btw. Had this rocky type with a ponytail and I told him, I am in it for the FUN, purely the fun. Actually we laughed a lot more that lesson than actually doing that much work... (my tactic I think to cover my inaptitude). Although I love classical Spanish guitar, I did make it clear that I wasn't going to attempt recuerdos de l'alhambra type stuff and he was fine with that.

I think dd really enjoyed it. Do the piano, go on, go on, you know you want to!

She really was good but I don't think it's the thing you do - go back to an old teacher to ask her to check progress unless you intend to revive that relationship.

Good idea to see if you can resolve issues - hopefully teacher is not prickly. If your dd is making good progress (although a bit unhappy atm) and still enjoys playing it might be better than taking a shot at a new teacher.

Strange remark that you got - you cannot plan on your child being the next prodigy. I completely understand about wanting to get a good teacher for dc but I also know that trying to be relaxed and not getting too stressed over the process is a good thing.

Hope it all goes well for you. Sounds like guitar was a blast.