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Brexit

Westministers : Saving the Union

954 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2021 23:26

Apparently we need a tunnel. Just like we needed the £53 million failed Garden Bridge.

Nice little earner for anyone involved.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
prettybird · 05/03/2021 14:30

Latest from the Good Law Project.

https://goodlawproject.org/update/johnson-misled-parliament/

Johnson misled parliament about Covid contracts, when he falsely told it after the first judgement that all Covid-related contracts were on the record Hmm

As late as the hearing itself, they said they had published 28% of Contract Award Notices within the 30 day legal limit.
But when asked by the Judge to follow up with evidence of the figures so he could make his final Order, it transpired that Government had actually only published 3% of CANs in the legal timeframe

Peregrina · 05/03/2021 16:55

So what happens when Johnson misleads Parliament? Sweet FA I imagine.

DGRossetti · 05/03/2021 16:57

@Peregrina

So what happens when Johnson misleads Parliament? Sweet FA I imagine.
What happened in Nazi Germany when Hitler mislead the Reichstag ?

What happened in the US when the President instigated a coup ?

TheHateIsNotGood · 05/03/2021 17:44

Now Rosetti such comparisons are just splatter and really don't have any meaning to the reality of the vast, massively huge, majority of the people that inhabit the UK.

Now I popped in to agree with the 'no one to vote for' sentiments; tiz often been the way, for ages.

Being non-party political since I've had the vote, way back then, I've maintained an Issue-voting stance, refined by the election-type I'm voting in.

I don't think "politically homeless" is a fair description - sounds a bit like the Voter is a Victim, although I empathise with the feelz. Hence the Monster Raving Loonies - gives the 'no one to vote for' Electors someone to vote for.

Tbh - the problem is that most Electors that want to have Someone to Vote for don't understand how easy it is to take over their Local Governance - because it's too boring or somesuch.

Too much focus on Parties and Personalities, rather than looking at the Democratic Systems already in place.

mrslaughan · 05/03/2021 18:10

More winning.....

twitter.com/pickardje/status/1367792552594837505?s=21

No doubt Clav will be along to tell us how fabulous it will be that the infra is paid by the UK gov - even though there will be so much less.....

ListeningQuietly · 05/03/2021 19:48

My head is firmly stuck in Local Government mode at the moment.

Proper oversight of public funds
and elected officers is
ESSENTIAL
the Redmond Review
the updated Welsh Audit Office guidance
the upcoming hearings of the Committee on Standards in Public Life

if we do not get our arses in gear we will be disregarded by other governments
and trade insurance for dealing with us will get more expensive
NOT a good move SadAngry

TheHateIsNotGood · 05/03/2021 20:10

Just to add to your list LQ:

Grassroots, Parish Councils, Town Councils - usually with Vacancies, so don't be shy.

Legal Framework created in 1894, seriously Amended in 1972 Local Govt Act with various Amendments since. It's all there, in legal black and white, just needs enough people within a local electoral area to 'take over' through democratic process.

Any amendments since 1972 gives this concept even more powers.

Easy to say what you don't like - far harder to find enough things that the majority of people do like; except easier to find common agreement within a local area.

I've said enough, so I'll just 'hate off', as suggested elsewhere.

Best wishes to all for now.

ListeningQuietly · 05/03/2021 20:21

Hate
Um, I think we are talking about rather different things.
It does not matter who the elected officers are
from the UKIP folks in Thanet
to the Hippies in Frome.

My issue is that governance and transparency are key

so when Matt Hancock and his cronies sepend
more than the entire MOD budget on Dido Harding's shower of shit
and Hancock gives contracts to his mates
and then lies about it AGAIN AND AGAIN
and Johnson wants to abuse Charity law to keep Carrie happy
there
MUST BE sanctions for misconduct in public office
of the type that existed before Pickles fucked it up.

Its actually nowt to do with Brexit
but bad governance WILL harm the UK

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2021 23:08

Unfortunately my parish council option is my bellend of a 'friend' who i want to punch.

He does stuff for us (as in mates personal projects) but this is a concept i have a fundamental issue with anyway.

Hes dismissed me and actively been absive over issues that mean a lot to me, so i may well not vote for him despite the 'personal benefit' on principle.

OP posts:
AuldAlliance · 06/03/2021 07:08

As ever, Marina Hyde nails it...
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/05/nurses-salaries-redecorate-downing-street-political

Peregrina · 06/03/2021 09:16

Yet again a perceptive analysis from Chris Grey

DGRossetti · 06/03/2021 12:51

Interested to do a YouGov today with this question ...

Westministers : Saving the Union
DGRossetti · 06/03/2021 12:54

@Peregrina

Yet again a perceptive analysis from Chris Grey
Interesting suggestion that the NIP may in itself break the GFA ... which might feed into the EUs delay - and possibly refusal - to ratify Boris's deal.
LostToucan · 06/03/2021 14:29

Interesting suggestion that the NIP may in itself break the GFA

And by extension of that same argument, Brexit breaks the GFA as the consent of those in NI was specifically withheld and ignored by Westminster.

LostToucan · 06/03/2021 14:37

From 22nd Feb:

Good (but long) Twitter thread from SDLP leader Mark Durkan:

Some politicians & commentators now back to specious refrain from their Backstop opposition that Protocol breaks GFA.
Points made = Lord Trimble says so; consent; constitutional status.
Arguments contradict own previous lines & ignore Protocol as result of own Brexit stances. 1/

Same L Trimble:
•denied Brexit implications for GFA saying GFA was "purely political & constitutional" not about economics or trade which Brexit is about.
•said NI consent not needed for Brexit &
•devolved consent not needed for terms or outcome of UK-EU negotiations 2/

L Trimble line of GFA not about trade/economics/EU ignored motives & mechanisms of partnership/cooperation in 3 Strands inc EU matters, N-S body remits etc.
Brexists hailed slanted view as gospel but now flip logic to argue trade factors = constitutional status ergo "consent" 3/

DUP MPs opposed even a parliamentary say on Brexit negotiating terms, blasting Miller case & Supreme Court line.
But DUP cheered other UKSC findings:
•Brexit didn't trip consent principle in GFA
•no devolved consent needed for UK-EU negotiations or Treaty/No Deal outcome 4/

So DUP, L Trimble &co insisted
•no NI consent or cross-community support needed for UK-wide Brexit
•no NI/Scottish/Welsh consent for Brexit terms impacting on devolved competences & interests
•treaty terms for sovereign UK Govt & parliament (alone) only to ratify or not 5/

DUP actively opposed attempts to have cross-party debates & Assembly views.
Resisted case for 360° protection for NI trade flows via island economy + EU (+trade deals) & GB (+ UK trade deals).
Rejected SM/CU options & Backstop.
DUP backed ERG red lines against NI's bottom line 6/

While spurning the case for special status for North via logic & context of GFA, DUP boasted special influence for themselves - "a place at the table where decisions are to be made".
Such influence was exercised with no regard for GFA, devolution or cross-community views 7/

Unionist parties rejected calls in Assembly for extension to UK-EU negotiations. Only for DUP to end up opposing deal by PM they backed, scrambled for the deadline they backed.
But they kept endorsing the very case for hard Brexit, no LPF etc which necessitated Protocol 8/

On Brexit-related legislation eg Internal Market Act, DUP opposed efforts to protect devolved locus, GFA's ECHR terms & prevent Whitehall override of future devolved policies or laws. No consent or cross-community support needed for capricious power use by Ministers of Crown! 9/

Record shows hypocrisy of their claims that GFA requires cross-community consent for everything.
Pinnacle of "parallel consent" in GFA was for joint election of First Ministers by Assembly. This was disposed at St Andrews at DUP behest in favour of solo party appointments 10/

Selective & distortive on consent & GFA, they have obstructed debate & ideas from others. Downed opportunity options for NI while downloading hard Brexit imperatives from ERG.
Defied regional best interests, ignored logical realities & now deny own agency to cry "foul" 11/

Other parties were very clear & quick in rejecting EU Commission crass mistake on Art 16. Also clearly want operational problems obviated for sectors & consumers.
Same concern to minimise adverse impacts, optimise any benefits & uphold GFA has applied over Brexit course 12/

Rather than dead end of DUP 5 Point Plan & narrow call for Unionist unity to mask own mistakes, why not take up option of a 5+ Party Plan?
Threatening work of institutions? Use them in cross-community purpose to remedy or reduce problems & cultivate special regional advantage

LostToucan · 06/03/2021 17:56

More sponsored Government puff pieces today about sending kids back to school.

Westministers : Saving the Union
prettybird · 06/03/2021 18:19

This seems to be a new way of spending taxpayers' money policy by the WM government Wink - paying for pretend "news" items. Hmm

I just hope that Scotland gets to benefit from the Barnet consequentials Wink (probably not as it will have come out of the Education budget which has already been defined so it is taking away from real spending on education Hmm)

HannibalHayes · 06/03/2021 20:44

Was this one of the ones that Cutnpasteova regaled us with?

ListeningQuietly · 06/03/2021 20:47

Hannibal
That headline www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/06/uk-statistics-authority-rebukes-gove-over-observers-brexit-figures
is revealing.

I find the arrogance and pocket lining and lying in the current government to be utterly extraordinary.

They are acting as if internet oversight did not exist.

mathanxiety · 07/03/2021 08:08

[The DUP have] Defied regional best interests, ignored logical realities...
This is the history of NI in a nutshell, and they have been enabled by generations of Westminster governments.

In this instance, the DUP have twisted themselves into such pretzels that they have disappeared up their own arses.

If only...

HappyWinter · 07/03/2021 08:46

Food scarcity fears prompt plan to ease post-Brexit checks on EU imports
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/06/food-scarcity-fears-prompt-plan-to-ease-post-brexit-checks-on-eu-imports

mathanxiety · 07/03/2021 09:08

Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who has effectively re-instated a policy ended by his predecessor Theresa May around nine years ago, said the change would see students "unlock their potential" to begin careers in the UK.

Good thing nothing seems to embarrass Boris Johnson. You may not have noticed the way the Times of India reported that patronising phrase, but I did, and the Times certainly decided it was worth highlighting.

What price goodwill?
economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/india-us-fully-committed-to-further-strengthening-ties-indias-envoy/articleshow/80686309.cms
"India-US fully committed to further strengthening ties: India's envoy"

Is it possible that over the last ten years of hostility from the Home Office, followed by Brexit and the Theresa May disaster in Anglo-Indian relations, large numbers of Indians may have decided to unlock their potential somewhere else?

............
Maybe a comparison of millions and billions will help you focus on what Brexit has cost the British fishing industry, @Clavinova?

www.undercurrentnews.com/2019/04/10/trade-insights-more-than-70-of-uk-seafood-exports-go-to-eu/
The UK exported £1.34 billion-worth of seafood and aquatic products to the EU in 2018, or more than two-thirds of exports by value.

www.fishfarmermagazine.com/news/japan-first-port-of-call-for-uk-seafood-drive/
Japan is a key export destination for seafood from the UK. In 2019, the UK exported 2,006 tonnes of seafood to Japan, with value of £16.6m.

enterprise.gov.ie/en/News-And-Events/Department-News/2019/October/20191016a.html
While Haward's company fills orders for shellfish, Ireland develops markets for agricultural, pharmaceutical, medical and technical products worth billions in North Africa and the Middle East. This despite Ireland's membership of the EU...

Peregrina · 07/03/2021 09:49

So a smugglers paradise then, with the Tory Government wailing that the EU made us do it?

I had hoped that leaving the EU would have knocked this 'We can't do/we must do because of EU regulations on the head - but it seems not.

Peregrina · 07/03/2021 09:54

A reminder about what might have been

Maybe though, the underlying tensions which led to Brexit would still have been there?

Not that Ed Miliband was really the bogey man that he was portrayed as. I would much rather have either David or Ed in charge of the country now.

ListeningQuietly · 07/03/2021 12:42

Even the Economist now regrets telling its readers to vote against Ed Smile