Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Festive Edition

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2020 21:00

Good King BBBBaBoris looked out,
on the Port of Dover,
There the shit lay round about,
Deep around the stopover;
Brightly shone the moon that night,
Tho’ the frost was cruel,
When a poor man came in sight,
Delivering stuff for Yule.

“Bugger SAGE and stand by me,
We've all stuff that needs selling,
Yonder peasant, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?”
“Sire, he lives a good league hence,
The other side the EU;
Though relations maybe tense,
He's trying to get goods through.”

“Oh god I need another wine,
I have many crisis to consider:
We must tell them its all fine,
I must not be seen to dither.”
SAGE and monarch, forth they went,
forth they went together;
Through the nation's sad lament
and really crappy weather.

“Sire, our plight is darker now,
And the covid transmission stronger;
Fails my heart, I know not how;
To keep Tier 2 much longer.”
“Soon we can drop their wage.
And treat them all more coldly
In Britain's new chrony age
A time to rob more boldly.”

In their master’s steps they trod,
On the quest to get minted;
Each and every last sod
Needs to be fingerprinted.
Therefore, Christian men, be sure,
DWP claimants are processing,
Ye who now will bless the poor,
God its all so depressing.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
DrBlackbird · 28/12/2020 23:33

I'm glad that the EU has already voted to accept the Deal. If, for any reason, it doesn't pass the U.K. Parliament, our lot cannot blame 'no deal' on the nasty EU. Was it LQ who said once that she'd wait until the ink was dry before believing it was a done deal? I'm really relieved to have a deal over no deal makes kicking Churchill's grandson out of the Tory party seem very small minded, mean and completely unnecessary in retrospect but am waiting for the ink to dry on Wed for a final confirmation.

OchonAgusOchonO · 28/12/2020 23:39

@DrBlackbird - the EU haven't voted to accept the deal. They have agreed to provisional implementation of the deal until the EP have analysed it and voted to accept or reject it.

HannibalHayes · 29/12/2020 01:12

Frankly, why wouldn't they accept the deal. It's so far worse than any of the previous deals that have been proposed (from a UK point of view). They'll be laughing as they agree to it!

Peregrina · 29/12/2020 08:37

If, for any reason, it doesn't pass the U.K. Parliament, our lot cannot blame 'no deal' on the nasty EU.

Don't kid yourself. It will always be the EU's fault.Or failing that Labour's fault will be the next excuse.

TonMoulin · 29/12/2020 09:07

@DrBlackbird, MEPs have asked for some time to be able to review the agreement too. They want to wait until MARCH for a vote!

Pllus I’m sure each country has to approve itt, which proved tricky before

Peregrina · 29/12/2020 09:25

They want to wait until MARCH for a vote!

Perfectly sensible though, it's a long document, so why not wait. Unlike our own Government who will insist that it's fine, it doesn't need discussion and then they will find that they don't like it. Still, it gives the Tories chance to renege and go for No Deal, further down the line.

Cynical, moi?

DGRossetti · 29/12/2020 09:46

Beginning Brexit:

www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-12-28/despite-last-minute-trade-accord-u-k-s-brexit-ordeal-is-far-from-over

Britain’s Brexit Ordeal Has Barely Even Started
Exhausted by the negotiations that concluded last week? There’ll be plenty more.

December 28, 2020, 3:00 AM EST
What You Need to Know About the Post-Brexit Trade Deal
Britain’s free-trade agreement with the European Union, announced last week after months of fractious talks and days before the transitional Brexit arrangements were due to end, is certainly better than the alternative. Separating with no deal at all would’ve poisoned relations and been worse for both sides than what lies ahead.

Yet this agreement settles less than you’d think. Supposing it’s duly ratified by governments and the European Parliament, it is just one stage in a literally endless process of further negotiation. This might be the saddest aspect of the whole misadventure. Many in Britain wanted to break free of the European Union — to stop dealing with it, talking about it, and having to think about it. Brexit’s greatest fallacy was that this would ever be possible.

Months of tortuous negotiations have yielded what’s called a thin trade deal. This gives Britain and the EU tariff- and quota-free access to each other’s goods. That’s better than nothing, because without the agreement both sides would’ve imposed duties and quantity controls on some of their imports. In the worst-affected sectors, such as farming and car manufacturing, this would’ve been extremely disruptive. But tariffs and quotas aren’t the only obstacles to trade. Even with this deal, border bureaucracy and other barriers will add to delays and interrupt the flow of goods, at significant cost to both sides.

Granted, over time more talks might smooth away some of those obstacles. But if you’re a Brexit supporter, that’s the problem. More talks.

Under the terms of this deal, intense discussion will be needed whenever the EU or the U.K. change their economic regulation in a way that either side believes puts it at a disadvantage. The free-trade deal often threatened to collapse over this issue — vastly more significant for the respective economies and harder to resolve than the ridiculous squabble over fish. In the end, the two sides agreed to rules controlling their ability to retaliate against behavior either deems anti-competitive, with new arbitration procedures to resolve disputes. In the future, each side will monitor the other’s regulatory policies. Are these changing? More talks.

Bear in mind that only a small part of the U.K. economy is devoted to producing goods. Services predominate — and trade in services isn’t covered by the deal. Increasingly, services are tradable across borders, a fact on which the future of the City of London depends. Negotiations on trade in services in general, and financial services in particular, have been moving slowly. Europe’s ambition to move much of the City’s business to the continent no longer needs to be disguised. The union will drive a hard bargain over regulatory cooperation, and it’s hard to say what the outcome will be. Only one thing is clear. More talks.

Admittedly, Brexit gives the U.K. a new measure of freedom to design its own policies across a wider array of issues. How much it ends up costing will depend on how well Britain exploits these opportunities. The eventual cost will depend, too, on how well it manages the other strains that Brexit will aggravate, such as the new drive for Scottish independence and the danger of fresh instability in Northern Ireland.

Regardless, relations with Europe — Britain’s neighbor of 450 million people, and by far its most important economic and security partner — will always dominate U.K. politics. Brexit means managing this relationship from the outside, dealing as an inferior with an EU preoccupied with solidarity, rather than from the inside, with the additional rights and opportunities that provided.

All the months of quarreling leading to this agreement — negotiations casting Britain as a puny supplicant, not an equal partner — have ended with a deal, but certainly not with Britain’s liberation. This grim, exhausting process has been just a foretaste of what’s to come.

SabrinaThwaite · 29/12/2020 10:17

HoC gets 5 hours to debate the EU Future Relationship Bill tomorrow - although the bill has not yet been published.

Westministenders: Festive Edition
Peregrina · 29/12/2020 10:25

No matter. The Tories won't read it anyway.

DrBlackbird · 29/12/2020 11:08

Ah, thanks for clarifying Ochon and Ton... admittedly I didn't read past the headline, just thought 'phew'.

Part of me still worries that we'll end up with no deal but that the public / press will be sick of the deal or no deal story by then and they'll be less criticism of Johnson for allowing a no deal outcome to happen. If he gets to claim a deal and puts it before parliment and something goes wrong somewhere for it not to be implemented, then it can't be his fault it didn't happen. Right?

SabrinaThwaite · 29/12/2020 12:25

Brexiteers already calling for Johnson to scrap his trade agreement.

Quelle surprise.

There is, however, one enormous saving grace in the TCA. It is a short clause on page 405 which I was delighted to read. It enables either party unilaterally to terminate the agreement subject to 12 months’ notice. It is our get-out-of-jail card. If the Prime Minister truly wishes the UK to have a bright future he should now set the country on a path of genuine independence in trade and other matters. Having achieved that he should pull this ripcord and set us free.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-problem-with-johnson-s-brexit-deal/amp?__twitter_impression=true

ListeningQuietly · 29/12/2020 12:31

I have written to my MP asking that they abstain tomorrow
on the grounds that
Brexit is a Tory project

Other parties should not demean themselves by voting for or against the Johnson deal.

Have a think about it posters and lurkers
we can make Johnson "own" his deal
without other parties being tarred as supporters

Every MP (except Julian Lewis) has an email address here
www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-an-mp-or-lord/contact-your-mp/

ANewCreation · 29/12/2020 12:50

Just been looking at Molly Smith Cato's old MEP website and realised I had forgotten that, at one point, there were calls for a People's Vote on the final deal to see if it was what people actually wanted.

It’s almost touching that people then believed that there might be the luxury of time and national reflection to consider whether the Brexit deal negotiated reflected the current needs of the UK.

No one foresaw that we would, in reality, be scrabbling around with hours to go, with the ink still wet upon the page, in a global pandemic and MPs given just 5 hours to debate.

How messed up is this...

Peregrina · 29/12/2020 13:02

Didn't Rees-Mogg once suggest it should be put to a public vote? Gone quiet on that, hasn't he?

Peregrina · 29/12/2020 13:14

From the Spectator article I note:

The government made an abortive attempt to fix the NIP with the Internal Market Bill in September – which the Prime Minister described at the time as vital - but buckled on it under pressure from Brussels.

No, I think you will find chum, that the pressure came from a President elect in the US, who identifies as Irish.

SabrinaThwaite · 29/12/2020 13:15

Some more end-of-2020 cheer:

LONDON (Reuters) - Europe will see its biggest transfer of share trading in more than two decades when stock exchanges open for business in 2021, with Brexit shifting its centre of gravity away from London.

While market players hope that years of preparations since Britain voted to leave the European Union means the transition of most euro-denominated assets like shares and derivatives out of the country will be relatively smooth, the long-term impact is unclear.

"This is a big bang event and that is one of the things that the market hasn't truly understood yet," Alasdair Haynes, chief executive of London-based share trading platform Aquis Exchange, told Reuters.

...

"It's not the start of the end of London, but it's pretty bloody embarrassing and a huge own goal for Britain," said Aquis' Haynes.

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/brexit-big-bang-to-trigger-tectonic-trading-rift-in-europe/ar-BB1cjjgS?ocid=msedgntp

HannibalHayes · 29/12/2020 13:18

The winning never stops...

Peregrina · 29/12/2020 13:36

The winning never stops...

Ah no, we are talking Brexit down. We are sore losers.

ListeningQuietly · 29/12/2020 14:55

Another Referendum is NOT

  • an option
  • the solution
It never really was ~ it certainly isn't now.

NOW we need to write to our MPs to make sure that they vote sensibly tomorrow

and from 11.01 pm on Thursday night
start the campaign to get a better and better deal
so that rejoining can be on the cards within ten years

Chersfrozenface · 29/12/2020 15:22

The deal document was rather a rush job, but...

"References to decades-old computer software are included in the new Brexit agreement, including a description of Netscape Communicator and Mozilla Mail as being "modern" services.
...
The references are on page 921 of the trade deal, in a section on encryption technology.

It also recommends using systems that are now vulnerable to cyber-attacks.

The text cites "modern e-mail software packages including Outlook, Mozilla Mail as well as Netscape Communicator 4.x."

The latter two are now defunct - the last major release of Netscape Communicator was in 1997.

The document also recommends using 1024-bit RSA encryption and the SHA-1 hashing algorithm, which are both outdated and vulnerable to cyber-attacks.

"It's clear that something is amiss in the drafting of this treaty, and we'd go so far as to venture the opinion that a tired civil servant simply cut-and-pasted from a late-1990s security document," news site Hackaday commented.

Several people have suggested the words were copied from a 2008 EU law, which includes the same text."

Via the BBC News website.

When will the Errata and Addenda start appearing, one wonders.

Jason118 · 29/12/2020 16:24

Bye bye EU space collaboration

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/satellites-and-space-programmes-from-1-january-2021

We really will be on our own, staring into the void.Smile

DGRossetti · 29/12/2020 16:24

Too late ! Too late ! The awful cry.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/sky-news-brexit-regret-6873634

Peter Wood expresses Brexit regret on Sky News - Credit: Sky

A Brexiteer has spoken of his regret for supporting the Leave vote - claiming it's a case of "be careful what you wish for".

Peter Wood, an exporter of glass eels in Gloucester to the EU, appeared on Sky News to talk about Boris Johnson's Brexit deal.

He told a reporter: "We all produce the documentation but unfortunately our customers have also got a raft of documentation to produce to allow the import to go ahead.

"So why buy from the UK? Might as well buy from another producer in France who can deliver to the door no documentation, no problems".

Asked how he feels about voting for Brexit, he expresses exasperation.

"I think be careful what you wish for - I thought we were going to get a global market, this is going to be a new opportunity.

"It hasn't turned out like that.

"I'd never have voted for Brexit if I knew we were going to lose our jobs".

UK Glass Eels turns over around £2 million a year by transporting baby eels three times a week across the EU and employs ten staff. He fears that the company will be considered "uncompetitive" after Brexit.

The clip has gone viral on social media with people sympathetic to Woods' comments.

Alasdair Pinkerton wrote: "'Be careful what you wish for'. —Tragically, this will be a common refrain over coming years."

Mark Jones said: "The key to winning the Brexit vote was offering a number of incompatible scenarios to voters, which created an unholy coalition that could never be satisfied. In fact, only a small proportion of the British population could be satisfied with any Brexit deal."

Jon Owen commented: "I'm conflicted: Yes, this guy probably was stupid to fall for the dishonest claims of the Leave campaign, built on decades of xenophobic, anti-EU nonsense from the right wing press. But his vote wasn't just an act of self-harm: we all face the consequences. We're all his staff."

Others, however, pointed out it contradicts the claim Brexiteers "knew what they were voting for".

SabrinaThwaite · 29/12/2020 16:30

.

Westministenders: Festive Edition
DGRossetti · 29/12/2020 16:44

Need a subscription, but the headline tells it all

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-british-will-soon-pick-at-the-scab-that-will-form-over-brexit-1.4446536

"Nearly 20 years on, he [Boris Johnson] has succeeded in bringing about the very conditions he feared. His country has lost its influence over the destiny of Europe; his bluster managed to unite the continent against British interests."

(contd)

The timelines don't really align, but we are really looking back to a Europe run by Charlemagne versus a patchwork "England" (c.f "Britain") briefly run by Alfred.

DrBlackbird · 29/12/2020 16:59

[quote SabrinaThwaite]Brexiteers already calling for Johnson to scrap his trade agreement.

Quelle surprise.

There is, however, one enormous saving grace in the TCA. It is a short clause on page 405 which I was delighted to read. It enables either party unilaterally to terminate the agreement subject to 12 months’ notice. It is our get-out-of-jail card. If the Prime Minister truly wishes the UK to have a bright future he should now set the country on a path of genuine independence in trade and other matters. Having achieved that he should pull this ripcord and set us free.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-problem-with-johnson-s-brexit-deal/amp?__twitter_impression=true[/quote]
Though the Spectator's writing is a bit muddled, this ^^ will be the reason for the overwhelming Tory support for the deal. Johnson claims a heroic victory in accomplishing a deal this week to relief and/or acclaim. Then later next year, once the deal is signed, he can pull the rip chord, step down and hit the dinner circuit, and let some other poor sod deal with the mess.