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Brexit

Westministenders: Festive Edition

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2020 21:00

Good King BBBBaBoris looked out,
on the Port of Dover,
There the shit lay round about,
Deep around the stopover;
Brightly shone the moon that night,
Tho’ the frost was cruel,
When a poor man came in sight,
Delivering stuff for Yule.

“Bugger SAGE and stand by me,
We've all stuff that needs selling,
Yonder peasant, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?”
“Sire, he lives a good league hence,
The other side the EU;
Though relations maybe tense,
He's trying to get goods through.”

“Oh god I need another wine,
I have many crisis to consider:
We must tell them its all fine,
I must not be seen to dither.”
SAGE and monarch, forth they went,
forth they went together;
Through the nation's sad lament
and really crappy weather.

“Sire, our plight is darker now,
And the covid transmission stronger;
Fails my heart, I know not how;
To keep Tier 2 much longer.”
“Soon we can drop their wage.
And treat them all more coldly
In Britain's new chrony age
A time to rob more boldly.”

In their master’s steps they trod,
On the quest to get minted;
Each and every last sod
Needs to be fingerprinted.
Therefore, Christian men, be sure,
DWP claimants are processing,
Ye who now will bless the poor,
God its all so depressing.

OP posts:
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39
RedToothBrush · 27/12/2020 14:30

David Allen Green has a blog today which has links to several key analysis by other experts:

davidallengreen.com/2020/12/the-united-kingdom-european-union-trade-agreement-the-early-emerging-picture/

This is particularly interesting:

Anton Spisak @AntonSpisak
The Brexit deal marks a new beginning of a complex relationship in which Britain and the EU will have to learn to live together differently.

This is the new institutional infrastructure set up by the treaty. New Partnership Council, 19 specialised committees, 4 working groups.

Each committee meets at least once a year. So, at least 21 new meetings between Britain and the EU every year. This excludes the institutional structures under the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol.

I don’t want people to draw the wrong conclusion from this: it’s important to have structures for ongoing cooperation. Committee structures are common in FTAs. My point is that the deal isn’t the end and it’ll entail a whole new way of engaging btw UK & EU, and one to get used to

Phil Syrpis @syrpis
And all so that the newly sovereign UK can - finally - free itself from the EU’s regulatory orbit. Apparently.

The UK has lost its say in the making of EU rules. Now, there are a whole set of new mechanisms seeking to ensure it does not diverge too much.

also

Mafevema@mafevema
Good news. The Commission will allow a grace period on rules of origin for hard pressed businesses for 1 year. The UK had already decided to do this. The EU is graciously reciprocating

Westministenders: Festive Edition
OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 27/12/2020 15:05

FrankGrimes is right.
There will be no penny drop moment.
But there will be increasing indignation when more and more Brits realise that they are not levelling up
and as Brexit will no longer be an option
the incumbent Government will take the pasting

which brings us back to 1997 WinkGrin

DGRossetti · 27/12/2020 15:35

www.moroccoworldnews.com/2020/12/329780/brexit-and-gibraltar-talks-could-impact-status-of-ceuta-melilla/

Brexit and Gibraltar Talks Could Impact Status of Ceuta, Melilla

The British enclave was not included in the Brexit trade deal, as it faces Spanish territorial claims that eerily resemble Morocco’s claim on Ceuta and Melilla

Rabat – Brussels and London finally concluded their Brexit trade deal ahead of Christmas, but for Gibraltar much remains in question.

Spain claims the 6.2 kilometer territory that is clearly within its geographical borders, even though it was ceded to Britain over three centuries ago.

The territory was not included in the Brexit trade deal, which means the “clock is still ticking,” according to Gibraltar’s Chief Minister Fabian Picardo.

Brexit has dominated international headlines for the last few years now. Nationalism, populism and xenophobia created a difficult negotiating position that was only just resolved yesterday. Yet for Gibraltar a “hard Brexit” continues to be an option without a treaty to govern its affairs in 2021.

The UK claims it has stood “side by side” with Gibraltar in “constructive discussions with Spain.” Still, the territory faces “the challenging nature of this process at the outset of talks,” a December 24 UK statement on the matter explained. As Brexit looms, it added, the UK now hopes to “mitigate the effects of the end of the Transition Period on Gibraltar.”

For Gibraltar’s Chief Minister Fabian Picardo, the Brexit crisis is far from over. Talks continue over the fate of the British-controlled territory with Spain’s geographical borders.

Spain’s European Affairs Minister Arancha Gonzalez and Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez emphasized that there was “no agreement” on Gibraltar amid ongoing negotiations.

The UK hopes to ensure “border fluidity” that Gibraltar has enjoyed prior to Brexit. As a part of the EU, Britain’s territory on Spanish soil enjoyed the benefits of borderless trade and travel between the two EU member states. All of that is set to unravel with Brexit around the corner without a clear agreement on Gibraltar.

The debate over Spanish claims on Gibraltar precede Brexit negotiations by three centuries.The territory was ceded to Britain following the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht that ended the War of the Spanish Succession. The treaty saw the emergence of the Spanish royal house of Bourbon, which still reigns today, and ended Spanish claims on France and ceded Gibraltar to Britain. The treaty that sealed Gibraltar’s fate also shifted the balance of power in Europe, just as Brexit is doing today within the EU. Three centuries later, the treaty is again a topic of discussion as Gibraltar faces a hard Brexit without a clear trade deal ahead of the January 1 deadline.

For Britain, control of Gibraltar meant controlling a shipping lane through which passes half of the world’s maritime shipping. Similar to the choke point at the strait of Hormuz, control of Gibraltar meant controlling the entry point to the Mediterranean. For Britain it was a key point on the journey to British-controlled India, with Malta, Greece and the Suez canal as its Mediterranean route to its colonies in the East.

For Spain, the case is a clear example of territorial integrity — despite three centuries of British control. The territory lies within Spain’s geographical borders and therefore belongs to Spain which controlled the region before Britain. Spain’s claims are valid, but they create an uncomfortable position for the country in regard to its continued occupation of territory within Morocco’s geographical borders.

Spanish claims on Gibraltar have revolved around similar arguments that support Moroccan claims on Ceuta and Melilla. Gibraltar is clearly within Spanish geographical borders, demarcated by the Atlantic and the Mediterrean. Yet the same argument applies to Spain’s two remaining territories on African soil.

Ceuta and Melilla similarly were ceded in centuries-old treaties. They are also clearly within the geographical borders of another country, namely Morocco. If Spain pursues its claims on Gibraltar amid the UK’s Brexit chaos, it could cede the argument for Moroccans increasingly making the case against Madrid’s continued occupation of Moroccan territory.

If Spanish geographical borders are a sufficient argument to abandon an 18th century treaty, why would Moroccan claims not invalidate the 17th century treaties that justify Spanish claims on the two enclaves? This is the predicament of Spain’s diplomatic corps as they determine how to pursue their country’s claims in Brexit, and post-Brexit, negotiations over Gibraltar.

If Spain does not use the current Brexit chaos to push for annexation of its rightful territory in Gibraltar, it could face a hard border with Britain. Without Gibraltar being part of the Schengen area, all trade and travel between Spain and Gibraltar will have to be tightly monitored. With the “clock ticking,” as Gibraltar’s Fabian Picardo has put it, British and Spanish diplomats face a delicate task. They will have to find a solution to the Gibraltar question that appeases both Britain’s Brexit enthusiasts andSpanish nationalists, while avoiding a situation that could see Spain return its enclaves on Moroccan soil.

As time runs out, the consequences of Gibraltar’s post-Brexit status could reverberate across its strait, and inspire Morocco to “open discussion” with Spain on the status of Ceuta and Melilla

DGRossetti · 27/12/2020 16:11

David Davies thinks one day not enough to debate bill.

Well he can also Fuck Right Off.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/26/fishing-chiefs-cry-betrayal-as-mps-fear-rush-to-ratify-brexit-deal

...
Davis also said more time should be taken to scrutinise and debate such a hugely important issue and historic change in the UK’s international relations. “Whatever you think of this treaty it is going to affect the rest of our lives. It is a treaty that is going to bring to an end an argument that has dominated the first half of our lives, and the outcome is going to be for the rest of our lives, and it does require more than just a rubber stamp,” he said. Davis added that one day’s debate was “too fast”.
...

Hoist with his own petard. If nothing else there's some grim joy to be had from seeing the most derring-do Brexiteers having to force a rictus grin as they gush about how wonderful life is now.

DGRossetti · 27/12/2020 16:17

Even Boris admitting it's pretty piss poor

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/27/boris-johnson-admits-brexit-deal-falls-short-for-financial-services

...
“All that’s really saying is the UK won’t immediately send children up chimneys or pour raw sewage all over its beaches,” he said. “That will be the logical next step - probably for the end of the year.”
...

Peregrina · 27/12/2020 16:20

I absolutely agree with him there, but who exactly is he trying to blame?

I imagine the deal we have now could well have been signed off in October and then we could have scheduled a good few weeks to debate it all.

DGRossetti · 27/12/2020 16:24

@Peregrina

I absolutely agree with him there, but who exactly is he trying to blame?

I imagine the deal we have now could well have been signed off in October and then we could have scheduled a good few weeks to debate it all.

Remember the ERG Star Chamber are also forensically looking through it to make sure it "passes their sovereignty tests".

Not quite sure what the options are if it doesn't.

The DD article also noted that Boris hopes this will mean that the issue of the EU will not longer be a Tory party fault line. (Hollow laughter).

Peregrina · 27/12/2020 16:36

No longer a Tory fault line - Ha ha.

Peregrina · 27/12/2020 16:40

Mind you, I fully expect the ERG to make a lot of noise, dutifully troop through the Government lobby to vote for it and then resume hostilities.

A twitter posting I saw suggests that No Deal has only been postponed. Possibly, but I think the change of the US presidency will make a difference. I think it really did mess up their plans.

Plus the annoyance of Scotland - it's not an issue which will go away.

DGRossetti · 27/12/2020 16:50

Mind you, I fully expect the ERG to make a lot of noise, dutifully troop through the Government lobby to vote for it and then resume hostilities.

The old adage about paying the Dane (you'd think Johnson would know this one) as ever applies.

Unless Labour can pull their heads out of their arses, and stop being Red Tories, it's not a great future ahead.

DGRossetti · 27/12/2020 17:01

Operation of Channel Tunnel still needs clear decisions - or possible closure.

ListeningQuietly · 27/12/2020 18:19

The friend whose husband had brain cancer became a widow early this morning - aged 45.
luckily the hospice was amazing at letting them spend time with their son at the end.

My aged P is still in hospital - much to his annoyance but I am the grown up now Wink

And I'm having rather too much fun on the multiple other Brexit threads prodding with a neatly manicured fingernail.

And the more I think about it
the more I look forward to the
ordure interacting with the ventilation device by January 31st
Grin

istherelifeafter40 · 27/12/2020 18:21

@TonMulin
I totally agree with you on all counts. I came to the UK for an academic job and was lucky to go "through the system" just before May's hostile environment. I didn't have to pay NHS surcharge. It still costed me £10,000 overall to get 3 working visas (always linked to a job so a changing of a job required a new visa, and a limit of 3 years meant a need to get another one even if there were only a few months I needed to get to apply for ILR), ILR and citizenship for my family.

Even before illegal and outrageous behaviour form the Home Office started in earnest, it was a very difficult process and the cost is just eyewateringly high and bears no relationship to the actual work involved in processing these. There is no other country in the world, I believe, that sets a cost of a 1-2 year long visa at more than a thousand pounds.

I once encountered a racist person at someone's birthday party that told me I stole his job. He worked as a drinks' company social media person. He didn't have a PhD, didn't publish books. Had no relationship to the university life. Also of course had no idea that to get a work visa (that's before limited number of Tier2 visas rule came about) the university had to complete a internal market test and prove that a person outside the EU was the best candidate of all. Anyway, I now imagine vote leavers to be like him (I don't know any).

It pains me to think what possibilities for their children people threw away. It is because I know what it means to move to another country for a job, and that the UK had an open job market with the EU and cut themselves off. It wouldn't matter for academic stars but for younger people establishing themselves, it will be a real barrier.

The UK has an amazing university system, but it is so amazing because of its openness. So many EU colleagues moved away since the Brexit vote. No one will come now. We just got a memo from our uni saying the cost of hiring EU staff will be high and will not be covered by the Uni. It's very sad. We won't any longer have the best.

dontcallmelen · 27/12/2020 18:46

LQ sincere condolences on loss of your friend & so glad the hospice were so accommodating 💐

TonMoulin · 27/12/2020 18:47

Yep. The hostile environment is awful. Really awful.

And it feels like people now think it’s normal and can’t see an issue with it :(:(

DrBlackbird · 27/12/2020 18:58

Same for my uni Isthere... so many talented and renowned academics have left for their home countries or other, more open, countries. Academia still being a career with (mostly) global opportunities.

We're also losing our EU undergrads. The super keen and amazingly knowledable talented students who have taken part in mock UN debates, speak multiple languages, and already have had internships in business. I'll really miss them and the international lifelong friendships they offered our British students.

And sorry for your racist encounter. When breathtaking ignorance is paired with absolute entitlement, it's hard to know where to start. Or even if there's a point.

OchonAgusOchonO · 27/12/2020 19:06

@DrBlackbird - so many talented and renowned academics have left for their home countries or other, more open, countries.

British academics are also leaving. In our faculty, we have 2 English lecturers starting in January.

HappyWinter · 27/12/2020 19:08

LQ Sorry about your friend's husband.

Racism is definitely more open now, I feel like we have gone backwards back into the 70 and 80s. I think it has emboldened people to come out with that sort of thing. Populism has divided us.

mrslaughan · 27/12/2020 19:25

@TonMoulin
"And it feels like people now think it’s normal and can’t see an issue with it :(:("

I don't know this is right..... I have been through it - such a fucking awful experience- but honestly most brits believe because you are married to a British citizen - it's a walk in the park .... which it isn't.
A friend is married to an American- his residency was denied.....not even citizenship- they tried to appeal , still denied. Said friend is dyslexic abs misunderstood the question in the form and ticked the wrong box..... and tbf some of the questions are ambiguous- they are trying to get you to make mistakes, so they can say no. I tried to explain this to mutual friends - they just didn't get it...thought there must something in new husbands past.... wanted to believe anything other than the fact the HO is a "hostile environment "

TheHateIsNotGood · 27/12/2020 19:48

And I'm having rather too much fun on the multiple other Brexit threads prodding with a neatly manicured fingernail.

Now LQ you know you enjoy it as much as we do, and I haven't noticed you prodding anything at all.

See you back in the Arms, don't forget to carry some logs in and stck them by the fire. I'm sure you can manage a few without chipping a nail if you're careful.

HannibalHayes · 27/12/2020 21:27

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

istherelifeafter40 · 27/12/2020 21:29

The hostile environment is not just outrageous or illegal. It makes no sense to me. There is a service tasked with processing completely standard kind of documents, in a way that is quite similar to most countries in the world: spousal visas, residencies after people committed to the country, brought their talent and education to it, and paid significant taxes in it. A service taking care of its various kinds of peoples. Instead said service is repurposed into denying itself to as many people as possible.
It is as if a bank would be repurposed to process the money on your account away from you or a doctor was repurposed to make you more ill instead of more healthy. Which immediately brings back the memory of fascism. Because that is what banks and doctors did with SOME people. It is a fascistic Home Office, there is no doubt about it.

Peregrina · 27/12/2020 22:34

The FT has a sensible commentary.

Sostenueto · 28/12/2020 08:13

Gove now on radio 4. First thing out of his mouth was we can now have free ports. Lolol! He's been pulled up on deregulation.

Peregrina · 28/12/2020 08:31

One thing we have to do is remind all members of Johnson's Government is that they were elected on a 'Levelling up' ticket. How will freeports help 'Levelling up'?

Oh and of course, hammer away that this is the Brexit you and your chums negotiated. If the EU gave you a bad deal, why didn't you negotiate better? And on.