its ok to be a bully & a leading member of the Government? What a lovely example to set

[SoTiredNeedHoliday]

How can an independant advisor find that a government member was a bully yet they stay in a position of power and just have to feel 'sorry'?
Really?
What a win for all the bullies out there.......
unbelievable

And in Anti-Bullying Week too - you could not write it! I feel sorry for the satirists, the concept not longer exists...

She should resign, there's no question. Unfortunately, anything goes in this government. Bullying, lies, cheating, backstabbing. That is what our democracy has been reduced to.

Um, Donald Trump?

This is where we’ve got to, after a couple of decades of politicians refusing to do the right thing.

Priti Vacant

It’s not her fault because she works in a very stressful environment and no one told her that her shouting and swearing at colleagues upset them. You couldn’t make it up, if you hit someone and they don’t say “hey that hurt” it’s ok because you didn’t know. - unbelievable.

I find it shocking that she apparently didn't realise that shouting and swearing is unacceptable behaviour and didn't equate it with bullying.

This is normal behaviour for her?
What on earth is she like to live with?

Boris is keeping her because ;
She is implementing policies on immigration that the majority of Tory voters want.
It's a graveyard job that no sane minister would touch with a barge pole.
I believe the Home Office is the largest, and most difficult Whitehall department to run.
Boris knows that he would be pushed to replace her with someone as "on message" with Tory manifesto policy.

None of that excuses her behaviour, but it does explain why Boris would rather lose his Advisor than his Home Secretary.

Yup, it’s shocking that the government is ignoring the advice of its own independent adviser about whether she broke the ministerial code and should resign - but has just had to ‘apologise’. The advisor is independent to stop impropriety and political influence - and BJ has just trodden all over that to save his cronies. Just like with good ole Dom. If Ministers can just ignore the code then it’s not just bullying that’s at risk. And, yup, the effect on anti-bullying messages when a quick slap on the wrist is fine 😩. This government is so heartsinkingly disappointing.

She's not convincin me.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but I would hope that the Home Office staff started to shout and swear back at her. We would then pretty soon find out that she doesn't like being on the receiving end herself.

Counter argument

The staff that were bullied were experienced mostly oxbridge educated civil servants in charge of huge departments. These people should be a ble to withstand frank conversations from an assertive female.

OK Priti isn't a member of the public school oxbridge white male culture and works in a different way possibly but is this necessarily a bad thing?

Surely in a democracy we can expect the civil service to support ministers and if it is the case that they are hesitant in introducing policy we can expect frustration from our elected representatives?

OK she used fruity language in front of permanent undersecrstaries which they thought was simply not the done thing (especially from a member of the fairer sex) but given their seniority should they have been overly offended?

"Frank conversations" and "shouting and swearing" are not synonymous. It's perfectly possibly to be a plain speaker without raising your voice and without using foul language.

"Full and Frank discussion" is standard public sector code for screaming match.
"Inconclusive circular discussion" = the standard phrase for one side repeatedly making the same incorrect point

there are phrase books of what to put in reports to make it clear to those in the know without being libellous

a "frank conversation" in this instance means at least one person left the room in or near to tears

Why on earth should oxbridge educated staff in charge of large departments have to put up with being shouted at and sworn at?

@mids2019 - you believe that bullshit if you must, but it doesn't wash with me. If you are up to the job you should have to resort to shouting and swearing at people. It does suggest to me she is complicit of her depth - but that is NO excuse.
She has had a staff member have a payout (paid for by the taxpayers)for her bullying her before - I believe in 2016 - so she knows this behaviour is completely unacceptable in any workplace, but chooses to behave that way instead.
It pisses me off when people try to make this about her being a female - bullies come in all shapes, sizes, races and sexes.... being a bully is being a bully regardless

I am not condoning bullying but real bullying happens to those on the bottom of the ladder , factory workers, retail staff, cleaners etc where it can be vicious.

I think it undermines the seriousness of bullying when very senior civil servants who should have the experience and temperance to withstand a bit of a rant from a minister. Swearing shouldn't be used but unfortunately in the adult world people under stress may use these words. Shouting may simply mean raising your voice to assert leadership. Priti's style seems to have ruffled a few feathers but maybe those feathers needed ruffling.

Another narrative would be that Priti, a BAME female is being unfairly highlighted for behaviour when shouting and swearing may be used by other cabinet ministers.

It has been known for leaders to shout and swear occasionally and though in an ideal world they shouldn't it doesnt mean they should be dismissed from their role.

Possibly part of the problem is that is impossible to performance manage senior civil servants as they are virtually unshakable so Priti found other means to try and get the direction she desired.

I am not condoning bullying but real bullying happens to those on the bottom of the ladder , factory workers, retail staff, cleaners etc where it can be vicious.
Utter and complete bollocks.

It is entirely possible for rich well educated powerful people to be bullied and demeaned and intimidated

to imply that educated people cannot be bullied is almost more insulting those being bullied

a bit of a rant
No
Fuck off
same as Bullying is not Banter

Treating people in an unprofessional manner intended to demean and undermine them
is
and always should be
totally unacceptable
and happens to be against UK employment law, even after Brexit

I am not condoning bullying but real bullying happens to those on the bottom of the ladder , factory workers, retail staff, cleaners etc where it can be vicious.

Bullshit Absolute bullshit

Bullying can occur at any level and in many different forms. It's still "real"

I worked for a bully when I was an Account Manager, so a fairly senior and well paid level. Unfortunately the levels above him were also bullies, so there was little to be done (except leave - but at the time, I was the sole salary earner, so couldn't Even so, dh and I decided after the break at Christmas one year that I was going to leave anyway, with no job to go to, as I was getting a new boss who's been recruited by the bully. Fortunately she was lovely and knew how to deal with the bully as her own father was a bully, so she'd reflected his behaviour at interview to get the job and I was able to thole the job for a couple more years before we were all made redundant anyway).

A colleague of mine went off ill with the stress of working for him - and I was expected to cover her accounts as well as my own. It was apparently my fault that I then found it difficult to do the double job properly . When she then resigned (with a pay off), all that HR was interested in was that she wasn't going to go after the company for constructive dismissal.

Not surprisingly, I also went off ill with stress shortly after that - but my new boss (between me and the bully) was able to shield me from enough of his behaviour to cope with going back.

We used to dread team meetings, where he would attack someone (you never knew who would be the target that month) and demean and belittle them. And yes, it could be vicious.

I used to feel sick every Monday morning at the thought of going back into the office

Outwith work, I've no doubt he was a charming man Yet the boss before him (who I still consider a friend) was tough but fair - and as a result, got a lot more out of the people who worked for him.

mids2019 how can you bring BAME into it?? Not everything is about race, gender, privileged or unprivileged backgrounds.
Your arguments are totally naive and perhaps your thought process is why some bullying exists.

No one should have to put up with bullying in the workplace or to be degraded publically by foul language and raised voices.

Can you tell me why a minister should be able to take bullying? I'd love to hear the reason.

Shouting may simply mean raising your voice to assert leadership Quite the opposite mids2019 Shouting is used by people who have lost control, who don't have proper leadership skills and who others are not listening too (& probably don't respect).

If she can't get her job done in a civil manner I would suggest she isn't capable of doing the job?

I once worked for Robert Maxwell - fortunately I managed to keep out of his way, but he was a bully. We all know the sticky end he came to, and I can't say I felt all that sorry.

Bullying is toxic and extremely damaging to mental health but it does the cause against such behaviour no favours by saying raising your voice and using fruity language is stated as such.

Again these are discussions amongst the most senior people in government. I would hope our most senior civil servants would have the ability to gently and firmly remind the home secretary of her responsibilities.

Sarah Vine (husband of Michael Gove) wrote an interesting piece about this where she highlighted that Pritis upbringing (child of immigrants, state education) may not have given her the decorum of the Sir Humphrys in her department with their gilded educational backgrounds and her approach to management may have appeared a little shrill and abrupt.

However there has been something of a traditional recalcitrance of the civil service to react dynamically to ministers in the past. (This was Dominic Cummings thing).

Her approach may need modifying and I am sure it will but I would like to think the civil service continues to respect her office and not to seek for a minister to lose her job simply because of her leadership style.

I find it hard to believe that no other minister has used bad language or raised their voice on occasion and the fact this behaviour is called out exclusively on a female BAME woman who has herself suffered racism doesnt quite sit well with me.

You still don't have a *%#^ clue what bullying is and the different forms it can take.

I'd use stronger language but I don't want to be deleted.

mids2019
She broke the Nolan principles
She broke UK employment law
end of