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Brexit

Westministenders: A Year of Johnson

976 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/07/2020 21:34

So having given the benefit of the doubt...

... whats your reflections?

Good (and yes do have some thoughts on the positive - challenge yourself on this one as its important) and the bad (and yes this is the easy bit but keep it within reason)?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
Peregrina · 26/07/2020 13:14

My recollection of the 11+ is that it required speed. It worked against the slower painstaking pupils. Yet these are qualities which could well be valued academically in later life. I know at least one 11+ failure who has gone on to gain a doctorate and plenty of others who have gone on to gain good first degrees.

borntobequiet · 26/07/2020 13:20

Poulet I don’t want to derail on the topic of dyslexia and Maths but you might be interested in my post here on 08/08/2018 at 09:28
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3324439-Westminstenders-In-the-Brexit-Lane?pg=22

HesterThrale · 26/07/2020 13:20

Poulet I’m incensed by litter too. Seen a lot lately in beauty spots near here. What do people think when they chuck it - that it’s someone else’s job to pick it up? Or do they just not think or care at all? It’s dreadful.

Two recent annoying tweets from Ministers. Are they hypocrites, or just so daft that they don’t realise how it sounds to people?

Greg Hands
@GregHands
My strong advice is this: do take the opportunity to live abroad when you can, learn the language, experience another culture (you can’t understand your own if you haven’t experienced another). But don’t get into fights.

Priti Patel
@pritipatel
Deeply saddened by the passing of Paulette Wilson who dedicated her last years to highlight the terrible injustices faced by the #Windrush generation.
Together we must continue on her mission to right the wrongs.

mobile.twitter.com/GregHands/status/1286255699996049414

mobile.twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1286429362284371968

DGRossetti · 26/07/2020 13:35

northeastbylines.co.uk/bitter-irony-for-the-north-east-of-eus-budget-deal-success/

On Tuesday, marathon talks between Europe’s political leaders finally concluded with a deal reached on the EU’s recovery plan. Days and nights of negotiations saw the original Commission proposals for an ambitious EU plan of massive investment to address the Covid19 economic crisis and direct investment into Europe’s Green Deal whittled down by ‘frugal’ governments. Despite this, the EU recovery plan and multiannual financial framework for 2021-27 (i.e. the EU budget) represent a financial fire-power of €1.8 trillion of investment – 30% of which is earmarked for climate action. The deal reached between governments will now pass to the European Parliament, where MEPs from six of the political groups (more than a necessary majority) have withheld their agreement until some of the ambition is returned to the package. Despite the claims of prominent Brexiteers, the EU has neither failed to reach a budget agreement without the UK, nor are these decisions taken by technocrats but by elected politicians representing the 27 member states.

On the same day, it was revealed in the UK press that the government’s Towns Fund is being used as a political campaigning slush fund for Tory key seats and marginals. The Towns Fund was officially set up in 2019 to help regenerate towns that had suffered from the decline of the UK high street and those that had been ‘left behind’ but unofficially was seen as a sweetener to encourage Labour MPs to vote for the Tories’ Brexit deal. The revelations this week that these funds are not targeting the most deprived areas of the country exposed another of the Brexit promises made by the Leave campaign that rather than sending the infamous £350m a week ‘to Brussels’ we would be able to spend it ourselves – cutting out the middle man. Unfortunately, it seems that the so-called ‘middle man’ was a guarantor that the funds went to the places that needed them the most rather than the places that the Tories needed the most.

(contd)

JeSuisPoulet · 26/07/2020 13:45

Yes the only timed tests scare her for English. Maths she finishes tests quickly and the Eng comprehension. She really falls down on writing and someone pointed out some of the maths questions are much wordier which can put dyslexics at a further disadvantage with 11+.

Sorry born, the link doesn't work Sad I mention it really as it is the main driver for me thinking private might be a better bet. I'm in a fortunate position where my mum left her house to me in my early 20's which I rent out, so this would mean selling that and having a much smaller nest egg and no monthly incoming. I would need to get a job again, obviously, which is proving far harder than I thought with a child admittedly, but with her at school the hours and commute wouldn't be such an issue as it is with her here. It's a tricky one to weigh up not helped by the fact she would go in a heartbeat and barely give me a second glance Grin

Anyway, not wishing to derail the thread. I do wonder how many families are feeling this might be a wise thing to do before wave 2 though. Not possible for me I'd add, I would be looking for senior rather than for her last 2 years of primary - a long term planner Wink

Yes Hester loads of fly-tipping here. We had 3 fridges and a mattress in the car park for the woods last week, bins over flowing which I do think is more a Serco issue of not planning for more collections which are needed in rural areas now. There's so many companies like that refusing to change the way they work, largely driven by the govt who just want to get everyone back into offices and back to "normal". Very shortsighted.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/07/2020 13:47

Crispin Blunt MP@CrispinBlunt

"UK side had the money, the people, the huge trade deficit, amongst other advantages,
including a hostage, the RoI"

Imagine if Corbyn (whom I despise btw) had advocated using a "hostage"

I expect there would have been newspaper cartoons of him with a machete against the neck of a bound & terrified victim

Brexiters - those who did any thinking at all - assumed that the British govt could bully Ireland into supporting major concessions from the EU to Britain
Some even fantasised about bullying Ireland into Irexit
Ireland and NI were considered advantages the UK had, to force frictionless Single market access
Brexiters ignored the warnings before the ref of how Brexit would likely bring forward Irish Reunification
(which needs as much time as possible to proceed without violence - acceleration is the last thing Ireland needs )

A commentator on Irish affairs said that historically Britain has rarely been very good at strategy, relying instead on bullying.
This worked well when Britain was an empire and a world superpower, but now .....

borntobequiet · 26/07/2020 13:52

Oh it works for me. Try again:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3324439-Westminstenders-In-the-Brexit-Lane?pg=22

BigChocFrenzy · 26/07/2020 13:52

To be fair, Patel doesn't think much more highly of British people unless they are well off:

She was one of the "Britannia Unchained" group of Tory MPs

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/07/boris-johnson-government-britannia-unchained

..... a group of Conservative MPs who had taken their parliamentary seats in 2010 brought out a slim manifesto for the future of Britain titled Britannia Unchained.

Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Liz Truss appeared to speak with one voice:

that of unabashed Thatcherites, convinced that hacking back tax and regulation and fixating on the demands of “business” was as appropriate for the 21st-century UK as it supposedly had been for the crisis-plagued Britain of the 1970s.

Some of the text was so provocative that it read like trolling.

“The British are among the worst idlers in the world,”
read one passage.
“We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.

Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.”

< If a white Tory MP had been so contemptuous of BAME workers, I would have been outraged too >

DGRossetti · 26/07/2020 14:07

So, as discussed in these very threads, severe dents appearing in the "I can go anywhere in the world I like" campaign that was part of the drive to ease lockdown.

It would be the stroke of a pen to introduce a measure (temporary or not) that prevented an employer dismissing an employee who was forced to isolate on government advice.

Once again, the fact it's not done is all we need to know. (Although posters are of course free to cut and paste any old guff to show that words and actions are not synonyms).

DGRossetti · 26/07/2020 14:09

“The British are among the worst idlers in the world”

Says world famous British person Priti Patel.

(Somehow, I sense that when she said that, she was imagining herself to not be British Hmm )

Emilyontmoor · 26/07/2020 14:10

Good: the manoeuvres of Dim and Dom have shown up the vulnerability of our democracy. Hopefully it won't take the shock that Germany experienced for us to move on from populism and back to competent governance with probity and integrity. In that sense I am hopeful that in Starmer we have a leader who manifests the qualities that takes: intelligence, rigour, a genuine passion for public service and fairness, an ability to delegate to the people most effective in any policy area. (and I don't think that those qualities are only to be found in any one political party, arguably whatever you thought about Thatchers policies, her motivation was not in question). But, as is the concern with with Trump, has populism, with all the effective tools it has developed to manipulate our democracies, made it impossible for leaders who display those qualities to gain power?

Louise How can you attempt to lay any blame whatsoever on our local public health resources when the Johnson government has done the exact opposite of enabling them to respond. If you are in Leicester you have the local example of your local public health officials crying out for the data to enable them to do their job properly.

Across the country you have examples of where people with the skills to respond to Covid have had to do so in spite of government not because of it, and the infrastructure set up by the government has sidelined their expertise in favour of businesses who have responded inadequately. When my DD had elective surgery she was not tested at the big Deloitte's drive in testing centre a mile from the hospital because it is simply not fit for purpose, workers on minimum wage with minimal training sit idle most of the day clad in hazard jackets and wellies, and the same mask and gloves all day, if the testing is even done properly the test result is too late to be of any use to the hospital, and the data they get is inadequate. So the hospital has repurposed its sexual health clinic as a drive in testing centre served by it own labs and using the contact tracing skills of its sexual health nurses. The trained HCPs who do the testing change their PPE for each test, very publicly disposing of it in the hazardous waste bin with each test.

The Crick is now up to 5000 tests a day with its local initiative with Cancer Research UK and the North London hospitals. It still has absolutely no government support though the government did build on the initiative Cambridge took with Addenbrookes based on the protocols developed by the Crick. The government ignore all the skills and capabilities of all the small labs across the country who could have been working with local hospitals to test staff from the beginning of March, and providing hospitals and public health officials with timely and specific data. Not only that but it requisitioned their best PCR machines to sit idle in superlabs whilst they struggled to work out how to use them and to recruit scientists with the necessary skills. The Crick actually had to furlough scientists with those skills because Cancer Research UK have already had to plan for a 20% reduction in funding next year. So the government were actually paying scientists with needed skills NOT to use them. Something Layla Moran has shown personal interest in to be put as evidence to the cross party enquiry.

The UK has some of the best scientists and public health processes in the world and the government failed to mobilise them. It does not bode well for them mobilising the best of Britain to trade with the rest of teh world after Brexit does it?

DGRossetti · 26/07/2020 14:21

The UK has some of the best scientists and public health processes in the world and the government failed to mobilise them.

1933 Germany had some of the best scientists and engineers in the world. But still lost. Remember they refused to embrace production lines as "too Jewish", so never underestimate the power of ideology over common sense. Never. Currently we are seeing it in action. Brexit over sanity.

Peregrina · 26/07/2020 14:26

Going back to the 11+ and some time I spent observing in a primary school - I noted that if children's reading was poor, it held them back in a lot of areas of the curriculum, like maths because they couldn't work out what the question was. If set out as a page of sums, they could whizz through it.

DGRossetti · 26/07/2020 14:29

@Peregrina

Going back to the 11+ and some time I spent observing in a primary school - I noted that if children's reading was poor, it held them back in a lot of areas of the curriculum, like maths because they couldn't work out what the question was. If set out as a page of sums, they could whizz through it.
My DM was adamant it was her job to teach us to read. And write.
Emilyontmoor · 26/07/2020 14:32

Poulet Dyslexics definitely get into Grammar Schools, I'm one of them! It was not a happy experience though and the assumption I was just lazy and slow has left me with a lifelong inferiority complex. The irony is that where the 11+ used reasoning tests that were a effective test of ability (before they deteriorated in the face of the tutoring racket) then pupils with Specific Learning Difficulties like Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Dyscalculia etc did pass it, since those SpLDs are equally represented (10%) at every level of ability. They are of course the same reasoning tests they use to determine ability in diagnosing SpLDs since it is the gap between your level of ability and the level you would be expected to have of processing, working memory and speed of writing and your actual level that is the source of your disability, or difference as I prefer to think of it.

It is just whether schools recognise that potential. Some of the most selective schools in the country recognise that 10% of their pupils need that support One of the best SpLD support units in the Country is at Westminster School.

I think one of the best outcomes from getting my DDs properly diagnosed was not so much the support they have had but that they understand why and how they are different, and their self esteem has been shored up by that understanding. It has helped them achieve their potential. And the journey does get easier as you go through the school and university system and intellectual skills become more important than memory and recall.....

Sorry if this is derailing but it is something good.......

Sostenueto · 26/07/2020 14:34

What is really upsetting my Dgd at the mo is endless bad reporting about how grades will be allocated in August for gcse and A level students. Isn't it enough they are all worried sick without all the scarmongering in the press? Now according to the Daily Telegraph they will be allotted with little emphasis on teachers predicted grades because teachers over estimated. This is a brighter cohort, the teaching on new format a lot better but hey let an algorithm decide your DC's future chances. It is a shambles and no wonder lots of DC have depression and anxiety!

Clavinova · 26/07/2020 14:36

hostage

"hostage" appears to be an overused word:

Nick Clegg; "Theresa May is being held hostage over Brexit"

Alfonso Dastis regarding Gibralta; “We do not want to convert the conversation between the European Union and Britain into a hostage-type situation.”

Macron; "The European Union cannot forever be hostage" [to the political crisis in the UK].

Luxembourg's PM lays into Boris Johnson after he skips press conference; "You can't hold the future hostage for party political gain."^

"Boris Johnson has warned MPs they "cannot hold the country hostage any longer" as he renews his push for a pre-Christmas general election."

Politico; "The EU's long-term budget plan is a hostage in the Brexit negotiations."

Financial Times; "Brexit is now entirely hostage to electoral calculations."

DGRossetti · 26/07/2020 14:38

"hostage" appears to be an overused word:

Not as much as "sovereign". Or "control".

ListeningQuietly · 26/07/2020 14:38

Have just taken my DDs graduation photos in the garden
as the University is still shut Sad

JeSuisPoulet · 26/07/2020 14:45

@Peregrina it's odd though as dd is a good reader (one of the reasons I didn't assume that her writing was dyslexia) but the questions seem to use mathamatical terms/words and can be misleading. We have been doing the Collins book for eg and the turns of phrase can be deceptive in what they actually want you to do. I'm trying to think of an example now and of course cannot!

Thanks @Emilyontmoor and I completely agree dd's confidence went up hugely when she was diagnosed and she said so many times "now I get why I couldn't do it like they can" and I do think that confidence ultimately helped her with maths; she was able to think she might be good at that even if she wasn't good at writing and has been highlighted as the only kid who always puts up her hand to answer, which she would NEVER have done in Reception or Y1/2.

I read this this morning and wondered if Cummings wants them back where he can keep an eye on them - far easier to bully people in person and no email trail either...www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/26/risk-of-unrest-if-civil-servants-are-forced-into-hasty-return-to-office-coronavirus

PawFives · 26/07/2020 15:00

I sympathise Poulet it’s not easy knowing what to do for the best for your children’s schooling. DD is going into y6 so will have to choose her secondary school in the autumn, which means the usual process of open evenings and applying might be disrupted by a second wave.

On a related note, thinking about the 11+ exams and Peregrina’s (I think) comment about speed being important and I think there is something that. Being good at exams, which can often mean an ability to get gist of something quickly but less of a grasp of the detail.

Peregrina · 26/07/2020 15:17

1933 Germany had some of the best scientists and engineers in the world.

Quite, and for those who think that education is the answer - the Germans were acknowledged to be among the best educated in Europe.

JeSuisPoulet · 26/07/2020 15:34

Education now is a far cry to then though, with nearly every country adopting a "kind hands" approach in early years, importance put on differences being good and equality to the point now people moan that "everyone gets a medal" but social and environmental issues are heightened these days. For eg with social isolation being an indicator of success is becoming more pronounced and negatively affects health. Working the way we were, which arguably started after the war, has decreased community in a largely detrimental way. Our polarised politics reflects this IMO with people who dislike the idea of equality not seeing the benefit of community or active learning.

borntobequiet · 26/07/2020 15:34

My link doesn’t work but perhaps Poulet can read this
Sorry, don’t mean to derail!

Westministenders: A Year of Johnson
DGRossetti · 26/07/2020 15:44

Education should really be about providing students with the tools for lifelong learning. Not a checkbox approach to an arbitrary list of subjects that will be obsolete before the student leaves school.