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Brexit

Westminstenders: Political vacuums are very bad things

987 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2020 23:18

Johnson has been notible (once again) but his absence.

Whilst we appreciate he has been ill and has a new baby, we are in the midst of a national crisis and a sense of leadership and guidance from our prime minister has been lacking.

And its not gone unnoticed.

Not just by the press. And not just by opposition. Nor NHS and care managers. But on the ground where it matters.

The lack of the sense of seriousness has dissipated. The sense of duty to country to behave. The idea that it will some how be all over this week when it doesn't appear to be the government strategy. The total lack of policy for a week whilst it's become clear bit by bit that these things have been under discussion and decided upon prior to the supposed key meeting on Thursday from the announcements from the regional assemblies. All in favour of a TV stunt tomorrow night.

Let's see how that goes.

The grandstanding isn't a substitute for detail and substance in a crisis. And we still have the looming show down at the end of June over extension of transition. More optics. More lack of practicality at a time when things will really be on the brink.

The next month will be telling and we hit the wall of economic reality which will bring the whole world crashing in on the lives of so many people.

This is the calm before the storm. Enough the sunshine. Enjoy the time with families. Before this is over everything will have changed for so many.

This is just the start of things unravelling and it needs someone to take control and draw up solid blueprints for all our futures. Is a man who is so frequently awol from where he is supposed to be and doesn't take commitments and responsibilities seriously, really the man for that?

Churchill had a vision for the country that cited housing as our second social service, the NHS being our first.

Will Johnson manage to some how forge out so grand new venture which gives the resource and rewards it deserves to the NHS (beyond lipservice and empty platitudes and clapping, that recognises the importance of social care and can stop the almost inevitable coming wave of homelessness and unemployment

And can he do it without selling us off as a basement bargain to the us?

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OldLace · 11/05/2020 20:21

'Whack-a-mole'?
FFS...

Peregrina · 11/05/2020 20:25

Hmm, if he wants to channel Churchill, he had better take a few lessons in public speaking.

We will er, um, fight, well er um on the er, er beaches, er um. This is er um well, not the end er um or um the beginning of the end er um, er the beginning of the beginning....

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2020 20:43

That's disgraceful, yoikes Angry
I hope they reported those responsible, even if patients

The Beeb should probably just have shown that segment with the racist abuse,
because it is informative - just not the kind of information they had planned to give

yoikes · 11/05/2020 20:45

Happened in the city centre

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2020 20:47

BJ is not a communicator;
he is a master propogandist, even an influencer

However, he does not have the subject knowledge to be able to answer questions in this crisis

Even when it comes to government policies, he has been out of the loop too long

  • workshy, then ill - and has never caught up with the details
LouiseCollins28 · 11/05/2020 21:08

DrBlackbird thanks for your thoughtful reply earlier, sorry it’s prob pages back now, I’ve had a busy afternoon. The substance I think was this part..

“Rather, the Remainers new hope (mine anyhow) is that the UK will negotiate a comprehensive trade deal that honours the WA, doesn't throw NI and it's fragile peace under the bus, and allows UK businesses to operate reasonably efficient supply chains in order for us consumers (food, medicine, goods etc) in order for the economy to take the least hit possible under the circumstances i.e. now that we've left the EU.”

I certainly don’t want to put peace in Northern Ireland at greater risk than it usually is. Equally I don’t see that NI should determine the status of the whole of the U.K. vis a vis the EU and I hope it won’t. Either the May solution”whole U.K.” , or the Johnson one “NI only” to get round this were acceptable to me.

I want the U.K. economy to be as self sufficient as possible. I have held that view for 2 decades but the CV-19 epidemic has reinforced its importance for me.

I am actually quite pleased to see, amid the crisis, that the Government can act so strongly in the economy if necessary if circs warrant intervention. I say that as someone who generally favours the least amount of govt interference possible, compatible with “rule following” free society. I wish our government had enjoyed such licence before and I hope they will use it in the future.

I agree that the economy is very important.I don’t think that restoring the pre Covid economic state should be the sole driver in seeking a new relationship with the EU and the rest of the world. If we end up just following the same set of economic rules as before I think that would be a very poor outcome for all the effort.

DrBlackbird · 11/05/2020 21:21

I think that there was just one reason that Johnson spoke last night, which was because, being pre-recorded, it was the only means of his ever delivering a fluid and articluate speech. Who ever said that he was the great orator? Beggars belief.

prettybird · 11/05/2020 21:25

Who ever said that he was the great orator?

He might not have said so about himself but he certainly thinks he is Wink

LouiseCollins28 · 11/05/2020 21:27

Ageee there Blackbird. Off the cuff? well he’d be great giving the pre-match “gee up” before a game of rugger, but as an orator in Parliament he’s pretty poor.

ListeningQuietly · 11/05/2020 21:41

One of my friends tried to defend Boris this morning as doing really well at a really tough job.
The rest of us (Zoom) blinked and changed the subject (I believe I'm the only non Tory in the group)

ListeningQuietly · 11/05/2020 21:43

THis article is working its way round my FB
quite a good read
www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2020 21:58

I do give BJ credit - and the rest of the Cabinet - back months ago when they suddenly realised how many deaths "herd immunity" could cause
and then switched to lockdown

They listened when Whitty explained that Britain resembles Italy epidemiologically, not Sweden.

The execution of lockdown has been cackhanded,
but at least when they saw the worst case of ½ million lives, they blinked

I'm glad of that

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2020 22:01

That's rather "damning with faint praise"

At least they weren't ruthless enough to kill ½ million !

But it does matter

JeSuisPoulet · 11/05/2020 22:30

Thanks Listening.

I was just wondering if anyone is concerned about changes to Employment Law relating to COVID? I've seen a couple of people posting about contacting Unions under the Employment Act (s.44) if they feel unsafe at work. It just strikes me as something interesting with the June date given.

I was also thinking about Cummings and, similarly to DGR perhaps, I feel he has deliberately taken a step back. It's almost as if he has stopped "helping" and is leaving Boris out to dry. Even the reports "from a No10 source" have withered recently. This is right up his street in terms of chaos and I'd not be amazed if this is perfectly timed for his idea of a complete restructure of society as we know it. It will be interesting to see when and where he resurfaces.

DrBlackbird · 11/05/2020 22:45

Hi Louise and many thanks for your reply. I think you can be assured that NI will not determine the status of the whole UK re its relationship with the EU. Rather, it's NI that has found its relationship within and with the UK that has been decided on by WM (well, by Johnson and the ERG) without either their consultation or their agreement. Does that seem right?

The trouble with wishing the UK's economy to be self sufficent is that horse bolted long ago. In fact, an interesting study by the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich found that a mere 147 corporations control the world (via shares and ownership). Yes, I agree that Covid has highlighted the dangers for quite a few countries of weaknesses in JIT global supply chains, but it is not possible to rewind the clock.

Wrt to your last comment, I think what you're saying is that you're concerned about following EU regulation (same set of economic rules) for the length of any extension, is that it? Those at least would be time limited. Keep in mind that the point of a trade agreement is that the countries are agreeing to abide by the same set of economic rules. Personally, I'd rather follow the EU rules than US rules, but then I'm not so fond of chlorinated chicken or growth hormone infected beef or aggressive US health care companies.

So I come back to my original viewpoint in which I see every benefit in agreeing to an extension in order to arrive at an orderly trade agreement with out biggest trade partner. Doesn't that make sense?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2020 00:16

The days of countries going their own happy way wrt regulations and standards are long gone

Trade deals and even being able to export somewhere under WTO rules will mean the UK still has to follow these -
and many of them are basically EU rules,
because the EU has long been known as a "regulatory superpower" which drives international standards

Piggywaspushed · 12/05/2020 06:46

The schools' announcement has obviously caused consternation, concern and kerfuffle and has (surprise!) been very badly handled. DfE promised 'detailed' (spoiler: they aren't!) guidelines (not rules then..) yesterday and released them.... during the 7pm briefing!!

I mean, come on... that HAS to deliberate avoidance of scrutiny and questions...

Has there been a single 'leak' to the press yet that hasn't been correct?

AuldAlliance · 12/05/2020 07:44

DS2 went back to school this morning, in his group of 12. Teacher with mask on, lots of distancing. He took a skipping rope as suggested for solo play at break, several books as also recommended. He's in with key workers' kids, too, so his teacher has 4 levels to look after.

I'll see what he says when he comes home for lunch.

The article Listening linked to suggests schoolrooms are probably not such a good idea, but I couldn't tell whether the office referred to also had air conditioning helping the air to circulate.

My neighbour teaches in a primary school in Marseille, in a very deprived area. The other three schools that are on that council estate are shut because there was a cluster in a block of flats, but hers isn't, although it's 300m from one that is Hmm and the inhabitants of all the flats in the estate use the same amenities.
She has one pupil due to return today...I'm waiting to hear how her day went, too.

ICouldHaveBeenAContender · 12/05/2020 08:23

BCF and many of the EU rules were largely influenced by the UK.

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2020 08:24

Piggywaspushed, the schools guidance is shocking. Absolutely clueless. No system of community detection in place yet and I simply don't trust this government not to do another 100,000 test fudge to meet the 1st June deadline.

The burden of responsibility and liability it places on individual schools is shocking too. I don't want the teachers to have to endure that.

The whole set up sounds like it's an stressful, anxiety producing, unpractical mess to be perfectly honest. And that's without taking into consideration stuff like how the education of those children who remain home due to vulnerable parents is managed (the staff at our school simply can't teach that many kids, oversee teaching assistants AND set school homework for kids who have a serious lack of resources at home). I know a few who have really really struggled during lockdown.

The proposals mean that the two teaching assistants who are assigned to those children with special needs and need one to one support so they don't disrupt the rest of the class, will now be responsible for 15 children and unable to do one to one. How us that going to go? It will mean that they will be firefighting and giving little actual education to the kids. Certainly not the same level as they would get normally and in DS's case less attention than he will get at home.

It's being rushed without real thought and a total lack of engagement with the profession. It's tone deaf to the concerns of parents. Everyone is just supposed to suck it up without question because 'this can't go on forever' and 'lots of parents need childcare'. The well being of some kids is being thought of, but certainly not all. And the well being of teachers isn't even on the radar. It's primarily about getting the economy going again first.

DS's school is due to start after half term on the 8th June. It's initially supposed to be split classes which begs a hell of a lot of logistically issues. Yet they simultaneously say they want ALL primary school kids to be in for a month before the school holidays. DS's school has 6 weeks before summer. That means if they want all the kids back before summer there is only two weeks of split classes in separate areas (as detailed in the guidance) possible! (they are talking about sending some children to different schools too) Then the other kids are due to be back. Which is nuts. I can not see that the plan is for the school to finish for the summer on the planned end of term from the information they have given out. Otherwise if its normal summer holidays the disruption to my son they are talking about for just a couple of weeks is not something I want him to have to be dealing with. It does make me think they are planning to shorten the summer, which just pisses me off because they aren't informing parents and teachers about that if it's the case (they know the unions will go nuts).

It's a total car crash. DS is lucky enough to be in a position where we can let him sit it out if we legally can. They seriously need to scrap the entire plan and start again. This time being realistic and centering the individual needs of each individual child first (making sure that those most in need get it first - putting DS right at the back of that particular queue).

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JeSuisPoulet · 12/05/2020 08:25

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings?fbclid=IwAR37rnO4LqWR1dZU4R6JQ1qnd40JpmYKTDBKBVvGEvxJN-qxKnhIIEdBYn8 the govt advice doesn't stretch to actual infection control measures, such as sensor tap/soap/flushing installations - obviously Hmm

Plus an interesting aside about "face coverings" which, seeing as we've all been now nudged to wear them for our multiple hours of exercise and excursions, may confuse many.

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2020 08:40

On the one hand I'm telling ds to stay two metres from everyone and he can't have his best friend to play, and then I'm being told he will be able to go to school (possibly in a different class to his best friend) and he's fine being around everyone but his best friend STILL can't come to play.

He's 5.

All this in out hokey cokey messages isn't helpful.

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JeSuisPoulet · 12/05/2020 08:43

At this point I'd rather Cummings was less in the background and more on the podium. Never thought I'd say that!

I've not told dd about the school fiasco unfolding. I think in 2 weeks the upward tick of the second wave will be apparent, so there's no point "planning" for it, personally.