Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: No pubs till Christmas?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2020 18:25

Today the news has moved towards acknowledging covid-19 reality: Nicola Sturgeon has explicitly stated that some social distancing will carry on until the new year in all likelihood.

When Matt Hancock asked if this was true for England too, he refused to say yes but he said that Scotland was working from the same framework as England.

In case anyone does still need this spelling out, this means the outlook for the hospitality and leisure industries is bleak.

There are extremely unlikely to be many enjoying a holiday in the sun any time soon, whether it be in Devon or Spain.

We won't be celebrating birthdays in restaurants nor having a pint in the pub.

Conversations on the doorstep from a couple of metres away is as good as it gets.

That means if you can't adapt you may not survive.

To add into the mix changes to customs to those companies who are operating seems insanity. But that's a political not a scientific decision to be made.

Whether reality in this will kick in, in the next six weeks or so before EU budgetary decisions relating to an extension have to be made remains to be seen.

Until then, there is no news but covid-19.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
60
squid4 · 30/04/2020 17:46

Where are all those johnson cheering brexit posters these days btw? There were whole threads of them. Brexit arms and that? Where they real people? The only one who seems to still be around is the exceedingly sane and polite Louise somethingorother who I don't share politics with but would happily have a beer with, if we are ever able to share beers again.

The internet is very confusing.

DGRossetti · 30/04/2020 17:52

I read that too DGR... the CEO of DeepMind. Not sure what to make of that!

TL;DR - we're fucked.

Or a bit longer ... there is no such thing as 'artificial intelligence'. There may never be. And I am not prepared to waste a moments breath with anyone who uses the phrase in any sense other than the way I've just used it now.

It's weird that the UK has managed to produce two of the very few people in history that possibly grasped the subject, and the ignored one, and killed the other. Must be something in the water.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 30/04/2020 17:55

Finland are sending the younger kids back in to school from May 14th apparently. That's two weeks before the end of the academic year. Of course they have only had 206 deaths (population approximately 5,000,000)

Singasonga · 30/04/2020 18:05

rather than acknowledging that people experienced in doing a particular kind of hard manual job properly & quickly

^will be more efficient than newbies
and hence able to earn reasonable money on piecework rates.^

In my home country, planting trees for timber companies as part of their reforestation strategies was popular summer work for university students. Not everyone was suited to it, but those who didn't mind camping at their workplace, being completely alone all day, and was physically capable of bending/digging/planting every few meters over and over for hours on end could make reasonable money, even being paid by the seedling.

We never viewed it as "slavery." I'll have to tell my (now adult) cousin he voluntarily enslaved himself for tuition fees, he'll enjoy the laugh!

borntobequiet · 30/04/2020 18:06

Small cogs here but all my little team are 50+ (I’m 66). The main reason we can do a specialised job very efficiently is...years of experience.

Piggywaspushed · 30/04/2020 18:47

A quick squizz at Andrew Oswald's mugshot suggest he is over 50!!

Piggywaspushed · 30/04/2020 18:54

I have now read the paper which simultaneously manage to demonise and lionise those aged 20 -30....

They will develop leadership qualities and experience and serve as inspiration and hope to us olduns and...
They have to be let out because they are violent

It's very strangely written.

Question : what about 18 and 19 year olds??

DGRossetti · 30/04/2020 18:54

yorkshirebylines.co.uk/brexit-bombshell-american-eu-business-lobby-blows-hole-in-johnsons-brexit-plan/

yorkshirebylines.co.uk
Brexit bombshell: American-EU business lobby blows hole in Johnson’s Brexit plan – Yorkshire Bylines
Anthony Robinson

The American Chamber of Commerce to the EU (AmCham-EU) published a cross-sectoral position paper on Tuesday turning the screw on the UK Government’s hard-line negotiating stance. Although it urges both sides to “work to mitigate disruption as much as possible”, the paper deals a devastating blow to Britain’s present strategy.

They make no secret that their preference “would have been the UK’s continued membership of the Single Market and the Customs Union”, but they now call for “an ambitious and comprehensive future partnership”, not the bare-bones deal favoured by Boris Johnson.

“We support a deal comprising zero tariffs, zero quotas, and zero barriers. Any deal should maintain regulatory alignment where possible, in order to minimise obstructions to the integrated supply chains of businesses currently operating across the Channel. Divergence for divergence’s sake must be avoided, in order to prevent prohibitive costs to doing business.”
AmCham Cross Sectoral Paper April 2020

This would see Britain applying EU rules in a host of areas in order to provide the level playing field demanded by Brussels. For Brexiters it would call into question the whole basis of Brexit.

The body, that represents 150 American companies including Coca-Cola, Ford, JP Morgan, Mars, Hewlett-Packard, Uber and other household names, effectively calls for the kind of close trading relationship envisaged by Theresa May and rejected by Boris Johnson. It wants to see Britain participate in the Unified Patent Court as well as the EU system protecting intellectual property rights both of which require a role for the European Court of Justice, a red line issue for the Conservative hard right.

Other key points from the 39-page paper include a warning about a “cliff-edge scenario” at the end of 2020. It talks of the huge costs incurred by businesses of all sizes from the preparation for two postponed exit dates in March and October 2019. “Billions were spent on contingency planning throughout the withdrawal negotiations”, the paper claims.

On divergence, AmCham say, “current EU rules are often de facto global standards that we have adapted to and understand. EU rules also reflect international efforts to align rules and standards to reduce regulatory burden and red tape for businesses across the globe. Such efforts towards convergence at global level should therefore be maintained and strengthened moving forward”.

This will not make comfortable reading for the prime minister who has made divergence a cause célèbre.

The document also carries a warning about raising the costs of doing business through the web of supply chains built up over time by US companies across Europe:

“It is important to keep a strong focus on how the provisions of the agreement will impact business and its capacity to operate. The further away the EU and the UK will be after these negotiations, the higher the costs and red tape for companies and consumers.”

The British strategy is for a very simple, bare-bones deal which Michael Gove himself said this week was not a huge difference to the World Trade Organisation terms which would apply in a no deal scenario. This is a million miles from the sort of arrangement AmCham want and will see a massive increase in the burden of red tape and bureaucracy.

The central issue for the British government is that the sort of close, comprehensive arrangements the Americans are asking for will take years to negotiate sector by sector. An extension will certainly be required unless the detailed EU proposal already on the table is accepted in its entirety.

AmCham’s paper even touches on the sensitive political issue of the Irish border and says the withdrawal agreement is “now enshrined in international law and contains critical provisions related to the Irish border question, setting out a system of checks and controls, which should be thoroughly implemented to protect the EU Single Market. Gaps in the implementation could undermine trust between negotiators and negatively affect talks on the future relationship.”

Brexiters in the government look more isolated than ever. This follows a plea at the end of last year from British trade bodies like the Confederation of British Industry, the Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders, the British Chamber of Commerce and Make UK (formerly the Engineering Employers’ Federation) for a much closer relationship than Johnson wants.

To add even more to the pressure, the EU this week issued updated notices to stakeholders to prepare for substantial changes to the EU-UK trading relationship at the end of the year whatever happens. The notices covered 22 areas ranging from industrial goods, to medicinal products and aviation safety to chemicals. The update warned that if the European Union and the United Kingdom fail to reach an agreement by 31 December 2020, the changes at the end of the transition period would be even more far-reaching.

Brussels is preparing their fall back position. Hard choices lie ahead.

Taswama · 30/04/2020 18:56

But when did fruit and veg picking stop being done at least partly by students in the summer holidays in this country. I can completely see that being told you must live on site and pay to do so is not very attractive when you already have your own home in the UK.

RedToothBrush · 30/04/2020 18:59

< my opinion can be summed up in 2 words, the 2nd of which is OFF >

It's a running joke in our group of friends that those over 50 won't be allowed in the pub. We are aged between 37 and 52. DH is the only one under 40. We said he will be Billy No Mates down the local. (We won't go to the pub until all of us can)

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 30/04/2020 19:00

I'm a bit precious about my age. I am not sure how I will cope if I am no longer allowed to lie slightly about my age!!

Uygop · 30/04/2020 19:03

.

ClashCityRocker · 30/04/2020 19:13

Yup, we straddle the age bracket too.

We also work in the same place, so that would be interesting...

SwedishEdith · 30/04/2020 20:14

Where are all those johnson cheering brexit posters these days btw?

Yes, whatever happened to the lovely surferjet?

SwedishEdith · 30/04/2020 20:18

I must admit, I'd secretly love to be banned from working in the office for being over 50.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 20:31

I expect you'd be on UC at best, Swedish

SwedishEdith · 30/04/2020 20:35

Me? No, I work quite easily and happily from home now. Do not need to be in an office at all.

ListeningQuietly · 30/04/2020 20:38

Louise
Graham Norton uses a Company because the BBC forced all of its 'talent' down that route to avoid having to pay holiday pay, sick pay, ERS Ni and pensions.
He is not to blame for that.
Dodgy UK tax law is to blame.
Look after the big corporations, shaft small businesses

LouiseCollins28 · 30/04/2020 21:13

Interesting Listening where did you get that info from please? I found a link, below, to FAQs on the current situation which alludes to what you are saying.

My reaction to being told that, were I in his shoes, would go something like “I’m a staff member, put me on PAYE like everyone else or I’m not working for you”. If his talent is big enough, they’d agree in a heartbeat I’d have thought.

www.bbc.com/contributors/contracted-how/worker-contract-faqs

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 22:06

"If his talent is big enough, they’d agree in a heartbeat I’d have thought. "

Large organisations will almost always refuse to completely change their policy for one or two people,
unless they are absolutely irreplaceable

He isn't and he has very limited options for pay / career at that level
He's a B-lister in the UK, a Z-lister internationally and would soon be forgotten and sink without trace

He's been around a long while and there is always younger, less wrinkly, upcoming talent who'll take the job if he won't

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 22:09

Good, informative lecture by Chris Whitty at Gresham College today

Video & pdf:

https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/covid-19

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/content.gresham.ac.uk/data/binary/3292/2020-04-30Whittyy_t.pdf

ListeningQuietly · 30/04/2020 22:10

Louise
THe Personal service company approach saves the big corporation about 30% of the employment cost.
Its why so many Plcs use them for consultants and contractors

sadly the big companies do not get penalised for forcing people into the land of IR35 because big corporations offer jobs to politicians

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 22:17

What an excellent idea from the French govt: 👏🏼

The environment minister, Élisabeth Borne, said the government will contribute €50 per person towards bicycle repairs from 11 May,
as part of a package of measures to encourage cycling and keep cars off city roads.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 22:23

Now from someone who never had a good idea in his life ....

Trump erupts over poll slump and threatens to sue campaign manager

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/trump-brad-parscale-campaign-manager

President blows his top in Friday argument and reportedly tells Brad Parscale
‘I’m not fucking losing to Joe Biden’ in November
...

Trump deflected much of the blame for the disappointing polls,
ignoring criticism of his performances at the podium during daily White House coronavirus press briefings,
.....
“He’s pissed because he knows he messed up in those briefings,”
a Republican close to the White House reportedly told CNN.