Westminstenders: No pubs till Christmas?

[RedToothBrush]

Today the news has moved towards acknowledging covid-19 reality: Nicola Sturgeon has explicitly stated that some social distancing will carry on until the new year in all likelihood.

When Matt Hancock asked if this was true for England too, he refused to say yes but he said that Scotland was working from the same framework as England.

In case anyone does still need this spelling out, this means the outlook for the hospitality and leisure industries is bleak.

There are extremely unlikely to be many enjoying a holiday in the sun any time soon, whether it be in Devon or Spain.

We won't be celebrating birthdays in restaurants nor having a pint in the pub.

Conversations on the doorstep from a couple of metres away is as good as it gets.

That means if you can't adapt you may not survive.

To add into the mix changes to customs to those companies who are operating seems insanity. But that's a political not a scientific decision to be made.

Whether reality in this will kick in, in the next six weeks or so before EU budgetary decisions relating to an extension have to be made remains to be seen.

Until then, there is no news but covid-19.

...for those with dementia / alzheimers massive medical intervention would not have benefited them OR the greater NHS

It's a fairly quick ride on a very slippery slope from that phrase, 'intervention would not have benefited them', to 'Lebensunwertes Leben'.

My feeling too mathanxiety - although I was thinking of "Useless eaters."

Less intensive intervention may well have helped, but even if not, just sending them back to a care home to then potentially infect all the others is an appalling way to have treated them.

In Germany, once a care home resident has been discharged from hospital,
they are not sent back to care homes if they are positive for COVID.

Instead, the state has rented hotels to quarantine them,
staffed and serviced of course, by carers with PPE.

I am absolutely crap at posting stuff, but there s a piece of propaganda circulating on Fb currently that accuses the BBC ,ITVand Sky news of being unpatriotic for being critical and not getting behind the Government. I don’t know why I am still shocked by this shit, but I am. I told myself to stay quiet and went to bed but then I had to get up and point out that an independent media was crucial to Democracy. Probably will no longer have a relationship with a close family member, but I just had to answer.

The young are the resisters !
(probably realised they are being sacrificed for everyone else. Again)

The study is very sobering, BCF.
The 'Resistors' tend to be younger male idiots who probably believe they are immortal, and have a low level of concern for how their behaviour might affect others.

Key characteristics:
• Just 49% say they’re complying completely or nearly all the time with lockdown rules – much lower than other groups.
• Only around half support both lockdown measures and new police powers to enforce them.
• 58% agree that “too much fuss is being made about the risk of coronavirus” – around six times higher than other groups.
• Much less likely than other groups to be following official guidance, such as staying two metres away from others outside (73%), and much more likely to be taking measures that are not recommended, such as homeopathic remedies (50%).
• Doing things that go against official guidance, such as meeting up with friends or family outside the home (41%) or going outside when having coronavirus-like symptoms (35%).
• 35% have contacted a counselling or support service, and 51% have argued with family or people they live with.
• Much more likely to believe claims that are false or currently judged to be unlikely, such as that coronavirus was created in a lab (49%).
• Expect there will be a quick resolution to the coronavirus crisis and lockdown measures will end soon.
• 66% check social media for updates on coronavirus daily or more frequently.

Estate agent on R4 this morning saying her grapevine is full of stories about sheltered and assisted housing, for those less dependent than care home residents. These deaths are being missed by the stats.

Estate agent on R4 this morning saying her grapevine is full of stories about sheltered and assisted housing, for those less dependent than care home residents. These deaths are being missed by the stats.

They are being missed by the hospitals only stats, and those that now count care homes, but they can't be hidden from the excess deaths. See Chris Giles (FT) on Twitter, he's been doing an amazing series on the actual data (mostly some weeks old) plus a model estimating current excess deaths based on the hospital death rate. twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255497006300237826?s=19

Good job Captain Tom was't in a care home

Re end of life in a care home. MIL was in a home for nearly 2 years and passed away just as lockdown was being implemented (not due to CV). She had palliative care for her last week, with morphine administered by a nurse as required. Have things changed in 6 weeks?

There is a difference between residential homes and nursing homes - not all homes do both.

F in L received palliative care in a residential home with nursing but the GP couldn't visit, they had to do a video call and provide a end of life prescription for the care home to fill and registered nurse to administer. There was a bit of a scramble to sort this in his final hours and I can only imagine he was terrified for several hours until they were able to administer this.

My elderly aunt passed recently in a care home from the virus as some on this thread know.

She did have very good palliative care, was treated with oxygen and received end of life care to make her comfortable towards the end. I have no quibble with her treatment whatsoever and can absolutely see that hospital treatment was not the best option for her.

What I do have a problem with is the route she caught the virus - of course we will never know, but we do know that a resident who had confirmed coronavirus was sent back to the home with no test to confirm he was negative (he has since recovered, thankfully). And that with the best will in the world, the staff are struggling with PPE.

My aunt was not in the home because of medical needs, purely residential. Up until this year, she was managing in a second floor flat with no lift. Up until this crisis, she was still going out two or three times a week and was an active member of the local church. The doctor said off the record that he thought she would have a good five years left in her.

For her age, she was a remarkably well lady with an excellent quality of life. And she has been robbed of that because of the virus and because the focus has been on protecting the NHS rather than protecting people.

Ah oldmrs my aunt's home did both. I did wonder if it would be more problematic if it had been purely residential.

The Tories were only worried about protecting the NHS because they are the ones that have decimated the NHS for the past 10 years starving it of funds. It was a political decision to save their butts never one to save lives having already and ruthlessly discarded anyone in carehomes or over the age of 70!

The Tories were only worried about protecting the NHS because they are the ones that have decimated the NHS for the past 10 years starving it of funds

And now with their 80 seat majority, it's not so easy to scapegoat the Oppostion parties. Once this is over they will still probably try to go back to wrecking the NHS - but it all depends on how long the current situation lasts.

going outside when having coronavirus-like symptoms (35%).

^this is highly worrying... Perhaps they can do this now without significant negative impacts but that's probably due to everyone else's care to socially distance atm. But what happens when guidance is eased? These symptomatic resisters are going to pass the virus on to everyone and anyone.

My elderly aunt is in residential only too because the home she is in is so much nicer than the other comparable homes in the area that have nursing care wings.

It means she might have to move to a hospital or hospice for a last illness, but she’s so happy there it’s definitely the right choice for her. And there’s a chance she may die peacefully at home. The GP for her home is excellent and the care is amazing.

On Cummings pushing for lockdown.. thinking about this further, perhaps he had listened enough to SAGE that he reversed his thinking about going for herd immunity. I can see him at least appreciating the scientific evidence and the models on speed of transmission etc.

Whereas, IMO, Johnson would have likely been bored by the science. And it's telling that even Cummings knew that SAGE would have to put words in the PM's mouth 'what will Johnson say' i.e. to the public. Because it's likely that Johnson would not have listened at that point, he'd have waited even longer.

Not that I don't think No 10 isnt' behind the subterfuge of the PR campaign against anyone criticising government i.e. FB posting circulating its criticism of media for not being 'supportive' of government.

It’s possible Cummings changed his mind, but it’s equally likely he’s covering his arse.

The fact is though they should never have gone for herd immunity in the first place, and expedited testing, kit etc from the start. That’s a mistake that can’t be undone by a change of mind and that we are all still paying for.

@Icouldhavebeen a contender
What I am reading and being told (one directly by someone who works in a care home) is it depends completely on the care home. Many do not have the trained staff or in some cases registration to offer that service (of Pallative care).There is also something about not all GP's being allowed to just write a prescription for these opiates- though they have loosened those restrictions this week - but you still run into the problem , that not all care homes are equipped to offer end of life care .
The one my friend daughter works in - is predominately staffed by carers not even nurses - as the individuals who live there are all fit and healthy and in normal times require v little in terms of medical care - and the GP night come in for that.

There was a Scottish nurse interviewed on the news - I think the end of last week. She is a nurse , one of her clients had been fit and well, but then fell and broke her arm - was sent to hospital, was sent back to the home- but had picked up Covid in hospital, and became very unwell. They would not take her back into hospital as she deteriorated, and they (the care home staff) were not allowed or provided with the means of easing her death with morphine - they weren't able to offer palliative care. The GP was involved too , and could not help. The distress this nurse felt about what her patient went through was awful.

Having had two parents die, assisted by morphine predominantly (other drugs as well - but this is specific to morphine) it is a fine line they tread. Keeping them comfortable , but not giving them too much so they overdose, while managing the bodies ability to slowly need and be able to cope with more.

I am so pleased that your parent was in a facility that could offer pallative care, but a huge number are not set up for that.

It's hard to get away from all the evidence that this government was so ideologically entranced by its "Britain going its own way" vision that they avoided observing/learning ANYTHING from other countries' experience with covid-19, ignored it until they couldn't any longer (so no serious planning, no contingency) and then compounded it by refusing help from regional partners. Repeatedly.

There is undoubtedly a lot of confusion about what the long term impacts of the virus will be and what we will collectively do as a result. However, the poor start the UK had has made our future management that much harder, as we are still playing catch up with data and understanding the real virus status in the UK.

Ed Yong has been doing a good job of covering the problems with understanding the true nature of the covid-19 threat and what that means for "easing lockdown":
www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/pandemic-confusing-uncertainty/610819/

Thanks and to Clash, mrsl and others going through similar.

MIL was in a nursing home as she needed nursing care anyway. Thanks for highlighting the differences in care provision. It's a scandal whatever way you look at it.

In other news, Jenrick is saying the 100k test target may not be met. A scientist (Newton) said this morning that there's a lag in reporting numbers. Why do I suspect we'll hear next week that they met the target?

In other news, Jenrick is saying the 100k test target may not be met.

Given how much we've been promised it would be met, I'd humbly suggest that shouldn't be "other new" but "the news"

Good job Captain Tom was't in a care home

Good old Tom. Perfect propaganda prop.

Was wheeled out with full army escorts (socially distanced of course - I hope they held their breathe too) to the hoards of camera crews and press (also hopefully not breathing) in a perfectly essential exercise in hypocritical bullshit which could have exposed poor Tom to Covid-19.

The whole spectacle in raising money for the nhs in a charitable way rather than just funding healthcare properly gets appaulded as virtuous in a way that paying extra tax is not.

I almost wanted the whole thing to crash around everyone's ears with Tom getting covid. But he seems a nice and genuine bloke and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone (bar possibly dangerous orange megalomaniacs).

God awful the entire thing. But it made people all warm and fuzzy so that's OK.

God forbid anyone who said that two weeks ago though...

Yes Red, my husband and I had a discussion about how uncomfortable the fundraising for the NHS made me - I think it was people feeling ..... my comment was, "How many crowing they donated - voted for the tories and therefore the nhs cuts?"

Agree, RTB. The smell of exploitation is not a pleasant one.