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Brexit

Westministenders: Peak something

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2020 15:05

Westministenders: Peak something

The story so far

COVID has changed the world for the next few years, like a slowly exploding nuke:

  • killed well over 100,000 people
  • made many people afraid to leave their home
  • caused a Global Depression

Countries locked down because they needed the extra time to

Raise the Line while Flattening the Curve:

  1. Flatten the curve of the numbers needing healthcare to a level the system can manage

  2. Raise the capacity of their health services and public health systems - their testing and tracking process

Also, scientists desperately needed time to find out more about COVID:
how to avoid it, how to treat it

What happens next ?

Research teams around the world are working to produce a vaccine,
will become hopefully available within the next couple of years

In the meantime, treatment procedures are being developed to better treat COVID sufferers.

Also in the meantime, countries will need to gradually exit lockdown to rescue their economies from complete catastrophe.

Timing & measures for each country will be dependent on:

Death rate after peak,
health service capacity,
testing & tracing capacity etc

....and also what their govt and public deem an "acceptable" level of extra deaths & serious illness.

Possibly some countries will need to cycle in and out of lockdown,
whereas others will be able to accept the death toll with lesser social distancing measures.

The first few countries are already relaxing lockdown,
so the UK will watch, wait and hopefully learn what works and what doesn't

..... then copy these the correct way round

Westministenders: Peak something
OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 20:46

When used car sales men run government.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/middleeast/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html#click=t.co/LDJA9aa6VS" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/middleeast/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html#click=t.co/LDJA9aa6VS

U.K. Paid $20 Million for New Coronavirus Tests. They Didn’t Work.
Facing a global scramble for materials, British officials bought millions of unproven kits from China in a gamble that became an embarrassment.

LONDON — The two Chinese companies were offering a risky proposition: two million home test kits said to detect antibodies for the coronavirus for at least $20 million, take it or leave it.

The asking price was high, the technology was unproven and the money had to be paid upfront. And the buyer would be required to pick up the crate loads of test kits from a facility in China.

Yet British officials took the deal, according to a senior civil servant involved, then confidently promised tests would be available at pharmacies in as little as two weeks. “As simple as a pregnancy test,” gushed Prime Minister Boris Johnson. “It has the potential to be a total game changer.”

There was one problem, however. The tests did not work.

Found to be insufficiently accurate by a laboratory at Oxford University, half a million of the tests are now gathering dust in storage. Another 1.5 million bought at a similar price from other sources have also gone unused. The fiasco has left embarrassed British officials scrambling to get back at least some of the money.

“They might perhaps have slightly jumped the gun,” said Prof. Peter Openshaw of Imperial College London, a member of the government’s New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group. “There is a huge pressure on politicians to come out and say things that are positive.”

A spokesperson from the Department of Health and Social Care said that the government had ordered the smallest number of tests allowed by the sellers and that it would try to recover the money, without specifying how.

The ill-starred purchases are in some ways a parable of the risks in the escalating scrum among competing governments racing for an edge in the fight against the pandemic.

The still-emerging tests for antibodies formed in response to the virus are the next stage in the battle. By enabling public health officials to assess where the disease has spread and who might have some immunity, widespread use of the tests is seen as a critical step in determining how and when to lift the lockdowns currently paralyzing societies and economies in much of the world.

“You can’t lift the lockdown as long as you are not testing massively,” said Nicolas Locker, a professor of virology at the University of Surrey. “As long as the government is not testing in the community, we are going to be on lockdown.”

The gamble on the Chinese antibody tests, though, is also a barometer of the desperation British officials felt as public pressure has mounted over their slow response to the virus. One prominent expert, Jeremy Farrar, the head of the Wellcome Trust, a British nonprofit that is a major funder of medical research, recently warned that “the U.K. is likely to be certainly one of the worst, if not the worst affected, country in Europe.”

Long before the development of an antibody test, Germany, for example, the continent’s leader in containing the virus, began conducting as many as 50,000 diagnostic tests a day to help trace and isolate cases. That rate is now nearly 120,000 a day.

As of Wednesday, Britain was still conducting less than 20,000 diagnostic tests a day. Having missed a previous target of 25,000 diagnostic tests a day by the middle of April, officials are now promising to reach 100,000 a day by the end of the month and as many as 250,000 a day soon after that.

British officials have said that they started out behind because they lack major private testing companies of the sort found in Germany and the United States, which are capable of manufacturing and performing tens of thousands of diagnostic tests.

But by the time Britain began pushing in earnest to expand its capacity, it was also trailing behind most of Europe in the competition to buy up the limited supply of compounds, tubes and even swabs needed for diagnostic tests to determine a current infection with the virus.

So when the Chinese offers of antibody tests arrived, the officials knew that almost every government in the world was hunting for them, too. Nationalists like President Trump were pressuring domestic suppliers not to sell outside their borders. Oil-rich Persian Gulf princes were bidding up prices.

Medical companies in China, where the virus first emerged, seemed to hold all the cards, typically demanding yes-or-no decisions from buyers with full payment upfront in as little as 24 hours.

The two Chinese companies offering the antibody tests, AllTest Biotech and Wondfo Biotech, both said their products met the health, safety and environmental standards set by the European Union. Public health officials reviewed the specifications on paper while the British Foreign Ministry hurriedly dispatched diplomats in China to ensure the companies existed and to examine their products.

Representatives of both AllTest and Wondfo declined to discuss prices.

Within days of the deal, enthusiastic health officials back in London were promising that the new tests would vault Britain into the vanguard of international efforts to combat the virus.

Appearing on March 25 before a parliamentary committee, Sharon Peacock, a senior public health official overseeing infectious diseases, testified that the tests would require only a pin prick in the privacy of one’s home and would soon be available at minimal cost from either local pharmacies or Amazon.

“Testing the test is a small matter,” Ms. Peacock assured lawmakers. “I anticipate that it would be done by the end of this week.”

After quietly admitting last week that the testing had in fact proven unsuccessful, health officials are now defending the purchase as prudent planning and valuable experience.

It was to be expected, Prof. Chris Whitty, Britain’s chief medical officer, said in a news conference. “It would be very surprising if first out of the gate we got to the best outcome that we could for this kind of test,” he said. “It made a lot of sense to get started early.”

But Greg Clark, the chairman of a parliamentary committee examining the coronavirus response, said the government’s promises appeared unrealistic.

“There is no country in the world that is able to operate in massive scale antibody tests yet,” he said in an interview.

“I think it’s now clear,” he added, “that we should have moved earlier and more expansively to make use of all of the testing facilities that we could have.”

After British complaints about the test kits surfaced, both Chinese companies blamed British officials and politicians for misunderstanding or exaggerated the utility of the tests. Wondfo told Global Times, a Chinese newspaper, that its product was intended only as a supplement for patients who had already tested positive for the virus.

AllTest said in a statement on its website that the tests were “only used by professionals,” not by patients at home.

Doctors say the government’s descriptions of the antibody tests could also be misleading.

By comparing the antibody tests to pregnancy tests, officials seemed to be suggesting the antibody tests would determine whether a patient was currently infected. But a discernible level of antibodies may not appear in the blood until as long as 20 days after infection — meaning a person with the virus would test negative until then.

The British military laboratory at Porton Down is also working on an antibody test, but primarily to help public health officials assess the course of the pandemic by surveying samples of the population, not to inform individual patients. The government is hoping to repurpose some of the stored Chinese-made kits for this sort of population-level testing.

Do-it-yourself pinprick tests like the ones the British government ordered from China are far more complicated and much further off than such laboratory tests, researchers say. It is not yet certain what degree of immunity recovery from a past infection may confer, either.

Rapid antibody tests “have limited utility” for patients, the World Health Organization warned in an April 8 statement, telling doctors that such tests remained unfit for clinical purposes until they were proved to be accurate and effective.

British officials, though, were eager for a breakthrough.

Even in late March, as the pandemic overwhelmed hospitals in Italy and Iran, British officials brushed off the advice of the World Health Organization to expand diagnostic testing as quickly as possible.

By the time Britain began pushing in earnest to expand its testing, every country in the world was competing for the same materials.

To make up the shortfall, academic research laboratories have sought to convert themselves into small-scale clinical testing facilities, typically focusing on the needs of local hospitals.

“If it comes around from the government, all well and good,” said Ravindra Gupta, professor of clinical microbiology at Cambridge University’s Department of Medicine, “but we have to prepare for nothing to come. It would be crazy to wait.”

Cancer Research UK, a nonprofit organization, is converting its research laboratories to conduct as many as 2,000 tests a day. But its capacity has been limited to a few hundred because of difficulty and delays in obtaining scarce materials, said Prof. Charles Swanton, its chief clinical officer.

Even the swabs used to obtain samples had turned out to be scarce, he said, and his laboratory ultimately agreed to pay a Chinese supplier as much as $6 a swab — about 100 times the typical cost. “It took about 10 days to get them,” Professor Swanton added.

The British division of the drug giant AstraZeneca began setting up a testing facility last month for its own essential workers, said Mene Pangalos, the executive overseeing the effort. But at the request of the British government, AstraZeneca and its rival drug company GlaxoSmithKline have teamed up to repurpose a laboratory at Cambridge University to carry out as many as 30,000 diagnostic tests a day by the beginning of May.

AstraZeneca hopes to develop a laboratory test for antibodies, too, Mr. Pangalos said. But that will take until at least the middle of next month, and a home-based test, such as the British government tried to order, would take much longer, he added.

“Everyone is overpromising at the moment,” he said. “I don’t want to overpromise.”

I bet when the documents are eventually made public it turns out Johnson bet the entire government strategy on getting those tests, and it was a reason for a late lockdown.

And he lost.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 20:50

Peak globalisation...

Financial Times @financialtimes
Until now, Emmanuel Macron had big plans for the future. But the pandemic has left him wondering how to save France and the world economy from a depression comparable to the crash of 1929. In an exclusive interview, he talks about the 'unthinkable':
t.co/Ugf2HKooaM

Unlike other world leaders who are trying to return their countries to where they were before the pandemic, Macron says he sees the crisis as an existential event that will change the nature of globalisation and the structure of international capitalism

Asked if the pandemic highlighted the advantages of authoritarian countries, the French president said we can't compare western democracies to China: 'There are clearly things that have happened that we don’t know about.'

Emmanuel Macron is especially concerned about the EU and the euro, saying that both the bloc and the single currency will be threatened if richer members do not show more solidarity with the pandemic-stricken nations of southern Europe

Covid-19 might offer an opportunity to make the case that Macron is trying to humanise capitalism. That includes, in his view, putting an end to a 'hyper-financialised' world and greater efforts to save the planet from global warming

Macron has admitted that it is too early to tell where this global crisis will lead, but he says he has deep convictions about liberty and democracy — and that in the end the qualities that are most needed in these times are humility and determination

Westministenders: Peak something
Westministenders: Peak something
RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 20:51

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/3ea8d790-7fd1-11ea-8fdb-7ec06edeef84
This link seems to bypass the pay wall...

It's an important article.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 21:16

On a similar note to Macron's observation and how the world is changing.

A geographical problem.

Lindsay Beyerstein @beyerstein
Cuomo answered my burning R0 question at today's presser: NY's R0 is down to .9, thanks to NY Pause.

If it rises as high as 1.2, we're back to hospital shortages.

So, we don't have a lot of wiggle room to loosen social distancing yet.

This is a little tweet that's caught my attention.

Over the last two days there's a few questions have been raised about the R value in the UK have been raised in the media. The response has been raised that nationally they believe its 0.6 but there was an important cavat thrown in there that it wasn't evenly distributed and there were questions about what the R value was in places like care homes and prisons. And seeing this tweet has also made me ponder a little.

How much wiggle room does London have?

How much does that differ from the rest of the country?

Is it cities which rely most heavily on public transport and have high density population that have a particular problem.

And is that going to be particularly troublesome coming out of lockdown?

If you've been paying attention today there's been talk about the country having different restrictions in different areas and lockdown being partially lifted in some areas but not others.

You can help but think there is a London shaped problem at the heart of this thinking. And if NY currently has an R value of 0.9 according to the Governor, how much different is London's realistically going to be? I can't see it being drastically lower.

And if London is going to be a particular problem and given how centralised the country is, that causes other issues. Its much harder for the UK to relax restrictions than somewhere more decentralised like Germany. Especially when our outbreak has centred on London.

For example how do you go about stopping someone from London moving to the rest of the country and spreading it if lockdown is relaxed elsewhere?

Economically the heart of the UK is also centred in London which doubly compounds the problem.

The Westminster bubble effect and neglect of the regions comes back to bite us on the arse once again. Politics that won't go away.

DGRossetti · 16/04/2020 21:18

DGR, I meant about 10-15 years ago lol ... before shale oil/gas.

Here's a thing.

I did my sandwich year for British Gas in 1986. Working on the software they used to determine the best way to pump the gas. One of the guys on the team I worked in had been seconded to the Russians to help exploit their resources. I was lucky enough to meet him on a brief return to the UK and he said that there was a weird belief in Russia that there was a layer of untapped methane in the earths crust. To the extent they'd invested a lot into tapping it. Being a mathematician rather than a geologist the guy I met couldn't comment. But he told me in his academic career (he had a Ph.D) he'd often noted Russian science seemed to plough it's own furrow.

As you can tell, it made an impression. When shale gas was first mentioned in the late 90s, I did wonder if the Russians had been onto something.

Peregrina · 16/04/2020 21:25

DGR - was he talking about the Arctic permafrost melting and releasing methane?

DGRossetti · 16/04/2020 21:29

DGR - was he talking about the Arctic permafrost melting and releasing methane?

Not that I recall. It was specifically that there was a methane layer in the earths crust (from a natural process ?). It's easy to forget we live on an unquiet rock. It is anything but still.

LouiseCollins28 · 16/04/2020 21:55

Interesting post Red, funny how people can see things differently isn’t it. Reading that point about the higher incidence of Covid 19 in London made me think that there is a considerable opportunity presented here to rebalance away from London.

If people can be prevented from travelling into the capital for non essential journeys you would think that people could also be prevented from travelling out for the same reasons. So, if restrictions last longer in London than elsewhere, people could be incentivised by that to move their businesses to other places, where more normal conditions return sooner.

NoToast · 16/04/2020 21:57

Methane clathrates, a solid form of methane occur across the globe

Apileofballyhoo · 16/04/2020 22:05

Macron seems full of heart lately.

Sostenueto · 16/04/2020 22:07

Pmk

borntobequiet · 16/04/2020 22:18

Yes, those “ just like a pregnancy test” tests caused a lot of excitement, didn’t they? If it sounds too good to be true...

Barrique · 16/04/2020 22:20

Does Russia have a shale gas industry?

No.

Mistigri · 16/04/2020 22:21

Over the last two days there's a few questions have been raised about the R value in the UK have been raised in the media. The response has been raised that nationally they believe its 0.6 but there was an important cavat thrown in there that it wasn't evenly distributed and there were questions about what the R value was in places like care homes and prisons. And seeing this tweet has also made me ponder a little.

I've been thinking about this issue this week (I've been writing a report about corona impacts on and outlook for my industry).

One of the big differences in the case and death trajectories in different countries seems to be the extent to which the virus gets into closed or semi-closed communities like prisons, care homes, barracks. The later you lockdown the more likely you are to end up with a prolonged epidemic in these types of communities, where only prevention up front really works.

People on social media in France are asking how it's possible that case numbers aren't falling steeply when the lockdown is globally being well respected. I think the answer is that in the general community, transmission is now pretty low, but there is a rising problem with cases not just in care homes but at places like police barracks and navy ships. We know from the cruise ship and care home debacles that this virus is almost uncontrollable once it gets into close quarters.

This makes me much less optimistic for a steep fall in cases anytime soon.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 22:22

Louise the problem there is timescales not the idea of incentivising moving out of London. How much can be done in 3 weeks? You can't move your workforce.

And then the problem is where do you move them. What's happened in recent years has been moves to Manchester and Leeds and other cities. What's happening in Manchester is repeating the issues over traffic issues and housing and replicating London problems in other cities.

And that has no affect on the areas in the regions which most need help - the provincial towns. If anything the growth of Manchester is sucking life out of its satellite towns and centralising things.

I do think we need a rebalancing and I've thought this a while.

It's how you deal with the fact it's not been done at this point?

JeSuisPoulet · 16/04/2020 22:37

It's not going to only be 3 weeks until the end of lockdown - this is what they have done time and again, dangling the carrot. I've been saying from the start until we get testing on a community level there will be no end to lockdown. If they are sensible. The problem lies therein. As BCF said on the last thread, testing on that scale will take more than a few weeks.

The trouble with all of the govt bluster and spin is that no one can effectively plan, as you say Red, significant changes that will probably be needed.

We as a country have been constantly reacting to this virus rather than being proactive, so we definitely have a way to go yet. I'm glad the idea of locking down sections of the country is on the agenda. It would help with getting the testing underway. Only problem is policing it. I imagined road blocks and possibly army if they are going to the expense of bothering to test (which they hopefully understand by now is actually cost effective in the long run, if they don't want to have to start all over again).

borntobequiet · 16/04/2020 23:22

Maybe this will get Parliament out of London and into that new, fit-for-purpose building somewhere in the north Midlands. Put a dome over it and call it the Westminster Bubble. Pay for it by cancelling HS2. Have dormitories for the groupies aka political reporters. Convert MPs’ London homes into housing for essential workers. Etc.

TatianaBis · 16/04/2020 23:37

We are all being let down by a government that may have decided testing is, after all, not that important, despite the successful examples set by South Korea and Germany. On 12 April, the United States performed 140,000 tests. Italy more than 48,000. Turkey 35,000. Germany is averaging 50,000 a day. In the UK, total tests numbered just short of 16,000 on Tuesday. Just in our lab, we could have easily done 8,000. We are ready; why aren’t we being sent more swabs?

colouringinpro · 16/04/2020 23:55

I just cannot see how we can come out if lockdown with a testing regime. Is it possible?

SwedishEdith · 17/04/2020 01:03

I just had a horrible thought about the 3 week lockdown extension. That takes us to the VE Day bank holiday weekend. They're not going to try and engineer this into some kind of other celebration are they? Sort of jingoism on steroids.

missclimpson · 17/04/2020 05:05

I thought the choice of May 11th for France was interesting from that point of view when Macron announced it. Clearly and rightly not intending to allow the planned celebrations.

mathanxiety · 17/04/2020 05:55

pmk

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2020 08:33

Mistrigri I think you are sadly very right.

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
EXCLUSIVE: Polling of almost 3,000 carers for ITV News suggests the government has massively underestimated the crisis in care.

42% say they are dealing with suspected covid-19 cases. Yesterday the government said just 15% of homes had reported a case.

www.itv.com/news/2020-04-17/exclusive-poll-shows-true-extent-of-coronavirus-crisis-in-care-homes/
Exclusive poll shows true extent of coronavirus crisis in care homes

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
Optima Care, which runs homes across South East, tells us in response to our survey:

“These statistics are shocking. We thought it was worse than government updates based on our experience... this survey shows the situation is significantly worse. This is a ticking time bomb.”

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2020 08:37

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-only-9-of-britons-want-life-to-return-to-normal-once-lockdown-is-over-11974459?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
Coronavirus: Only 9% of Britons want life to return to 'normal' once lockdown is over
People have noticed significant changes during the lockdown, including cleaner air, more wildlife and stronger communities.

We knew the mood for change has been there for some time. I think this possibly is saying what people WANT now rather the past few years of saying what they DON'T want.

Incidentally this is the type of survey that should make Johnson very nervous indeed (Hint: Macron has noticed it and Macron is very nervous)