The Brexit Arms: Are We Nearly There Yet? 🇬🇧🚗↩️🇪🇺

[SingingLily]

No, not yet, but soon. Just 24 more sleeps until we legally leave the EU at 11pm on 31 January and finally enter the transition period after what seems like centuries of argument, dither and delay. We do so with hope, optimism and a determination to be a good friend and neighbour to the EU, but for now, no one said it better than Winston Churchill.

“This is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, this is just perhaps the end of the beginning.”

The Pub Rule is the same as it always was: all welcome but only if you leave goadery outside. The first drink is on the house.

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

I see half a dozen Labour MPs defied Corbyns whip & 3 dozen abstained on the vote.

#LabourIsntListening

[Mistigri]

Auld, post that in the other place ... won't concern anyone here.

[Coppersulphate]

Hooray! 👏👏👏👏
WA passed.
It should go straight through the HoL now because it was in the manifesto.

🍾🥂

[howabout]

Auld what you are posting does not correspond with EU or UK published guidance - just in case anyone lacking scepticism is following along.

ec.europa.eu/programmes/erasmus-plus/about/brexit_en

[AuldAlliance]

Howabout. I know it doesn't.
I don't understand how it's happening.

It's not as clear-cut as I thought when I got the first alarmed emails about it from students and colleagues.

I can't work out whether it's
-decisions made at individual university level (because international relations offices are concerned the WA might not actually be ratified by the 31st and because the contingency regulations don't apply to exchanges begun before the date of the UK exit from the EU, so they're suspending Erasmus exchanges and their funding beyond that date to be on the safe side)
or
-a more global phenomenon. I am trying to get more details, but won't till tomorrow.

[PuttingouttheFirewithGasoline]

The very fact that brexit bill is not top news even after today's momentous bill being voted through tells me, we are where we want to be.

It's fact, it's happening, it's moving forward, that's not in any doubt.

Hurrah.

[Songsofexperience]

Not hurrah no. Yes, something had to happen and the paralysis had to end, yes it's happening, yes the outcone of the ref and the last GE make it so. But it's a sad day for many and that has to be acknowledged and respected...

[DustyDiamond]

Auld, post that in the other place ... won't concern anyone here.

She did already.
Ages before posting anything here.

In fact, you were discussing it with her yourself, on the other thread.

Perhaps you were 'present but not involved' in that discussion yesterday morning?

[DustyDiamond]

It's a hurrah from me

Was musing last night about how the extremist remainer MPs and associated campaigners had pretty successfully solidified the narrative that the 'logjam' in Parliament could 'only be addressed by putting it back to the people' & 'a General Election will solve nothing'

Turns out that I & other leave supporters on MN & elsewhere were correct after all - a GE was the right (and best) course of action.

Finally, the Brexit decision is being enacted.
This last 3 years has been a shameful time for our Parliament & I'm over the moon that it was finally put out of its misery.

[SingingLily]

Morning, all,

Third reading all done and dusted. Now the bill goes over to the HoL where the same parliamentary arithmetic may not apply but the zeitgeist does. The HoL is constrained by its own convention from inserting any amendment that directly contravenes the government's manifesto pledge (and this one, as we were repeatedly told, is an "oven-ready" deal - oh how they all laughed at the time). If the HoL does manage to circumvent its own convention with a display of verbal acrobatics, the HoC will simply strip out it all out again and assert its primacy. The game of ping pong was never so predictable.

What a difference a GE makes.

In other news, RLB, Jess Phillips and Lisa Nancy have now secured enough MP/MEP nominations and are now working on affiliates and unions. Emily Thornberry is stuck on seven but Clive Lewis has managed to quadruple his score - to four. No one is quite sure how Barry is doing but that's another worry for another day.

In honour of the long-awaited completion of the third reading, today's complimentary breakfast is the full English. For anyone who doesn't feel like celebrating, a Veganuary alternative is suggested. Please help yourselves.

Kettle's on ☕️☕️☕️

[SingingLily]

Morning, Dusty, and it's a huge hurrah from me.

We've had three years of pure farce in Parliament in which those who claimed to be acting only to uphold democracy did everything in their power to hollow it out from the inside and render it meaningless. In doing so, they further divided and entrenched the country, gave little or no airtime to other pressing problems facing the country, and shredded our reputation as a stable democracy, making us an international laughing stock.

The voters of the UK did something hitherto unknown in the history of the EU. We brought our politicians to heel and reminded them who calls the tune.

Democracy rules once more. Thank God.

[howabout]

Morning Lily.

Highly recommend Brexitcast from last night. Thoroughly enjoyed the mix of factual reporting, analysis and ridiculous banter. (may just be me because loads of my old Uni mates are just like Laura and Adam - no idea what the BBC will do for political journos if Glasgow secedes)

Covered loads of the stuff on next steps we have been discussing recently. Main theme was how much the narrative from all sides has changed because of the GE result.

[howabout]

I'm still backing Barry even if no-one else does and I don't have a vote.

[Songsofexperience]

Democracy never stopped ruling. It can be chaotic at times on contentious issues, which is part of the deal. A divided parliament isn't shameful. Democracy isn't ruling unopposed for 5 years. We need a proper opposition. Once we do, I'll hurrah for that.

[SingingLily]

Barry as leader and Richard Burgon as dep.

I reckon that's a winning combination, Howabout.

[AuldAlliance]

Dusty
Perhaps you were 'present but not involved' in that discussion yesterday morning?
I got emails from about 6pm last night saying students were getting no funding as of Feb 1st, so the discussion yesterday morning is irrelevant.

[SingingLily]

A divided parliament isn't shameful.

Never said it was, Songs.

A Parliament that votes for a decision to be handed over to the people by way of referendum, pledges to honour that decision and enact it ("The government will enact what you decide" was the phrase used in the £9m leaflet IIRC), stands on manifestos promising to respect the result and then does everything in its power to overturn a decision it doesn't like...well, that's shameful.

And in acting so shamefully, it made the country even more divided and a laughing stock to boot.

We are well rid.

[SingingLily]

I got emails from about 6pm last night saying students were getting no funding as of Feb 1st

Might be worth starting your own thread, Auld, in case other universities are experiencing similar problems.

[DustyDiamond]

My post wasn't directed at you Auld

Erasmus is not something I'm overly bothered by, but appreciate its importance & it's a policy that matters very much to you so bang the Erasmus drum as much as you can & (genuinely) all power to you & I hope the relevant bodies stop misinterpreting/misrepresenting the current scenario (ie nothing will change during transition) and that things are sorted for your students ASAP

My post was directed at the wilfully disingenuous poster who pretended that they'd not seen your posts on another thread, despite the fact that they'd been interacting with them
For some reason only known to them, they decided to swoop on here & 👮‍♀️ this thread - that sort of shenanigan bores the tits off me, hence my commenting on it as I did

[DustyDiamond]

YY to shameful being re the behaviour of MPs in actively seeking to undermine, subvert & overturn the ref result.

Happy to have opposition, happy to have scrutiny etc etc - but not happy at all with the disgraceful way they in which they sought to hollow out (as Lily says) our democracy for their own ends

[Songsofexperience]

I would agree that the way the ref was handled was a pure unadulterated disgrace however I lay that firmly at Cameron's door. The ambiguity of parliament's role (not legally binding result but was setting it up for failure. He should have either made the ref binding but set up proper rules for it or said clearly it's indicative only. Finally, he should have owned this mess and sought for compromise rather than let May entrench divisions by pandering to the ERG.

[Songsofexperience]

Sorry posted too soon and some of my post vanished!
It should have said:
The ambiguity of parliament's role (not legally binding result but we'll do as you say) was setting it up for failure.

[DustyDiamond]

YY to Cameron being a shit generally, a shit re his arrogance at letting a sloppy piece of legislation pass (iirc the SNP were the only ones who tried to ensure that it was binding & had proper parameters), and a weasely shit for running away the morning after.

That said, once Parliament had voted to respect the outcome & to trigger A50, that should have been an end to trying to renege on it & actively subvert

Many MPs were voted in in 2017 on their promise that they'd 'respect the ref result & enact it' - then they promptly fucked that promise right off & did the opposite - hence the shameful shambles of the last 2 years

[DustyDiamond]

I was not at all bothered by the SNP & Lib Dems sticking to their position of trying to stop Brexit btw - they stood on that promise in 2017

Cooper, Soubry, Grieve et al did not

They stood on the promise to enact the result

[SingingLily]

I'm glad to say I agree with you, Songs. I do blame David Cameron. Not only did he set up unrealistic expectations with his lofty and bullish claims of extracting concessions from the EU pre-referendum but he proved to have far too high a regard for himself as a negotiator.

Having set up a binary referendum, he was so cocky about the result that he not only failed to prepare for the "wrong" answer but he actively forbade the Civil Service for preparing for such an eventuality. That, to my mind, was gross negligence. But then he topped it off by resigning the day after and walking away whistling a jaunty tune.

My contempt for him couldn't be any greater.

Still, as a Leaver, I will always regard that referendum as his greatest achievement. Just not the one he hoped he would be remembered for.