Immigration

[refraction]

Today at a meeting I got talking about Brexit and immigration. I voted remain but a lady said she voted leave based on immigration.

Her reasons were

That people are less charitable when it’s their wage that you are messing with. It’s hard to accept migration when u have the bailiffs at ur door because a German took ur job (not what happened but some experience it that way). Nothing to do with being racist just hard when u don’t have a job in your hometown because someone has travelled from abroad to take it and then claim benefits for a family that lives oversees. And meanwhile u can’t sign on because universal credit is a nightmare.

She said people are black and white. All they see (truthfully or not) is that they had a job, now they don’t, a German (or foreigner) has their job and they can’t pay their mortgage... even if that’s not how it is, that is how many see it and therefore cause a rise in anti migration votes.

She was talking about entry level jobs, non skilled.

Any truth in this?

Linking immigration to Brexit was a con, the two are not related. Voting to leave to lower immigration is frankly voting for fairy stories. Reese smog etc don't give a shit about 'working people' and will get all the immigrate they need to benefit of their ideology regardless of whether they are from EU or non EU.

The government could have put in many protection measures to protect the UK workforce at any point - Danish government have just recently increased the protection of the Danish workforce from the impact of immigration.

UK gov chose not to, they are not going to change that any time soon Brexit or no Brexit.

Linking immigration to Brexit

To be fair - Jeremy Corbyn was contributing to this view in 2017/18:

"Labour leader claimed Brexit would deliver the benefit of preventing firms 'importing cheap labour' to undercut UK wages."

"Ian Murray, an ex-Shadow Scottish Secretary, warned “the only person smiling after that passage in Jeremy’s speech would have been Nigel Farage.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-nigel-farage-scottish-labour-foreign-worker-attack-kezia-dugdale-a8249691.html

[Jeremy Corbyn] "on the Andrew Marr Show during the 2017 election campaign, when he pledged to stop the “wholesale importation of underpaid workers from central Europe.”

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/30/labour-immigration-u-turn-corbyn

You or that 'lady' in your story have a weird problem with Germans. It's ridiculous on so many levels. People are poor because the 2008 financial crisis was caused by dodgy unregulated dealings of the kind favoured by Tory backers. Also an idea would be to stop voting in governments that strip workers rights. Immigration is a convenient scapegoat.
You've also picked for your example people from the richest country in Europe with very strong workers protections. They represent about 0.003% of the population. Ridiculous .

And while we're at it, let's do the stats. There are roughly 3.5 million EU born citizens in the UK. That's about 5% of the population. Stop focusing on them and start calling the government to account for the problems you face.

Also the bizarre assumption that it's easy for Johnny Foreigner who took your job to claim
all the benefits for his family back home, yet UC is too hard for a Brit to claim.

If I was this lady I'd be bloody angry with the con artists like Farage who sold me a dud and I'd rethink my reasoning for voting leave at this point. Shame on you if you fool me once, shame on me if you fool me twice.

InMy... Child Benefit is very easy to claim and people do move back to their home countries and don't stop the payments. It's not a lot of money here but a fair amount in other countries.

I know people who voted leave to stop 'so many of them coming in' said right into my face... (I'm from the EU.)

To be honest, I even understand.

If it’s so easy to move to an EU country and get employment why don’t those people who have had their job ‘stolen’ move to another EU country and easily steal a citizens job?

She lacks reasoning, and possibly basic intelligence.

Lazy, if £100 a month is a fair bit in other countries, why don't people retire to those countries. A pension would go really far in that case.
EU countries have the facility to withhold benefits for migrants who have not found work in 3 months, the U.K. chose not to use that facility.
No party is clamping down on child benefit fraud.

Maybe because money isn't only the deciding factor when you move homes? Unless you're struggling with employment and to make ends meet. But I could probably do 1.5-2 shoppings for the family in Eastern Europe for the family. Utility and public transport is generally cheaper.

Anns yes, a pension would go far. There's no chance I'd go back to my home countey though, the healthcare system is a disgrace, people are really gloomy (can't eve say they don't have a reason), there are homeless people everywhere etc. I don't think it's liveable.

I'm probably the German that took your job, came here for University, fell in love with a Brit, bought a house & had a baby with him who is British and German - I moved here about 10 years ago. I work for a German bank and my job actually requires me to speak german as most of my stakeholders external and internal are in Germany, just happens to be that my role is performed out of London. Could a Brit who speaks German do my job - I believe so, why not?

I'm from a small town in Germany, my hubby has 3 siblings and aunties and uncles all around us - about a 5 mile radius, and it's amazing when you have so much support when you have a 10 month old baby. We live in London and for the jobs we have, and the money we earn, it's crazy to say that we don't live comfortably, we just break even due to the mortgage payments, car payments, the student loan payments & from January, it'll be nursery fees. I know nothing about benefits or universal credit, I actually had to google what universal credit is - no disrespect to anyone - please don't misunderstand this but I just want to reiterate that every foreigner including me has their own story & I'm not here to take your job but in our situation, one of us would always be the foreigner.

It's upsetting to see that some people voted leave because they don't want me in their country, I love England, and the UK. I've seen lots of places in the UK - absolutely love the Cotswolds & the Lake District.

Sending lots of love from the train x

And meanwhile u can’t sign on because universal credit is a nightmare.

Labour plan to scrap universal credit and the 2014 Immigration Act - they want to make it easier for UK and non-UK citizens to access benefits;

"Work and pensions secretary Therese Coffey claimed continued free movement would see a total of 837, 000 EU nationals come to the UK by 2029, with a likely cumulative cost of £4.1bn over that period in payments of benefits such as universal credit and disability support, but not including child benefit. She accused Jeremy Corbyn of failing to include this expense in his costing of Labour’s manifesto."

”This analysis highlights the cost of Corbyn’s immigration policy to our public services,” said Ms Coffey. “The shocking thing is that this is yet another line item in Labour’s long list of uncosted pledges that will mean higher taxes for all of us.”

"Jeremy Corbyn’s policy of continuing free movement with the EU would cost over £4 billion in benefits."

vote.conservatives.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-policy-of-continuing-free-movement-with-the-eu-would-cost-over-4-billion-in-benefits

Honestly it isn't me. My best mate at work is half German and his Mutty lives here. I love her.

The reason I posted was I needed to develop my thinking further around this issue . It's never been a reason for me. I am looking at why people vote as they do thats all on lots of issues.

There are fewer unskilled/low skilled jobs and immigration is a scape goat. The reason is automation and the economic crisis which collapsed manufacturing. Immigration actually keeps low skilled jobs alive through a larger construction sector and services sector.
So many jobs simply do not exist but people are more likely to believe someone else has that job. It’s too scary to think that a job they have trained for and have experience in is extinct or almost extinct.

I work for a German bank and my job actually requires me to speak German as most of my stakeholders external and internal are in Germany...It's upsetting to see that some people voted leave because they don't want me in their country

On the contrary - you sound exactly like the type of citizen the UK wants to attract.

Meanwhile, it's all going downhill in Germany;

Sept 2019 Germany sees 'alarming' increase in number of food bank users

"From the outside, Germany is viewed as a prosperous country with low unemployment. But new figures shed light on the increasing number of people turning to food banks."

"The number of people using food banks in Germany has risen by 10 percent in a year, new figures show."

"A total of 1.65 million people regularly used food banks within the last year, up from 1.5 million in the previous 12 months, according to figures published by the non-profit Tafel Deutschland e.V, Germany's umbrella organization for food banks."

www.thelocal.de/20190919/alarming-increase-in-number-of-food-bank-users-in-germany

@Clavinova Theresa Coffey refused to acknowledge the link between the introduction of Universal Credit and the massive increase in food bank use. Why would you give any credibility to anything she says?

(Note also that the Conservative's costings have been discredited countless times.)

Immigration actually keeps low skilled jobs alive through a larger construction sector.

Jeremy Corbyn 2017!!

"Laying out the case for leaving the single market, Corbyn used language we have rarely heard from him - blaming immigration for harming the lives of British workers."

"The Labour leader said that after leaving the EU, there would still be European workers in Britain and vice versa."

“What there wouldn’t be is the wholesale importation of underpaid workers from central Europe in order to destroy conditions, particularly in the construction industry.”

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/07/jeremy-corbyn-wholesale-eu-immigration-has-destroyed-conditions-british

I think what it shows is that this section of society don't feel listened to and they wrongly thought that voting for Brexit would make a difference

"The number of people using food banks in Germany has risen by 10 percent in a year, new figures show."

Small fry compared to UK figures, isn't it. The number of parcels given out in 2010 was 40,000. The number of parcels given out on 2018 was 1.6 million.

(Note that figure is for the Trussell Trust, and doesn't include the hundreds of other food banks around the UK.)

Theresa Coffey refused to acknowledge the link between the introduction of Universal Credit and the massive increase in food bank use. Why would you give any credibility to anything she says?

Well, I have just looked at Labour's manifesto - they do want to increase freedom of movement, scrap the 2014 Immigration Act and make it easier for non UK citizens to access public services and benefits - they don't want a 'two tier' system. Have they costed this?

MrsMaiselsMuff

How can 1.65 million people regularly using food banks within the last year in Germany be considered 'small fry'?

I have been made redundant recently (thanks to Brexit ). My former employer still employs a lot of EU staff and non-EU immigrants too.

I could therefore argue that the immigrants have taken my job but my logic would be utterly flawed. This country needs immigration and our politicians have persistently lacked the courage to be honest with the electorate about this and make the case for it.

There will be fewer jobs for everyone if we crash out with no deal at the end of 2020.

According to the government we have record employment figures and rising wages so things should be getting better for everyone but that's sadly not the reality. The government want you to believe that if only we could stop those pesky people from the EU working and paying tax here we would all be better off. As an EU citizen who has lived here for 20 years I find it deeply insulting. I have never felt so unwelcome here and feel the mood generally very hostile. If my DC were not at such a crucial stage in their education I would leave tomorrow.

I think the problem with the people taking my job argument is that for many of the jobs they couldn't get anyone else to do them. Without the labour from overseas a lot of fruit & veg wouldn't get picked.