Westminstenders: From Uxbridge to...?

[RedToothBrush]

Speaker Bercow is gone.

Speculation that Johnson is parachuting into Rutland.

Rumours that the Brexit Party won't contest the election.

A new speaker to be elected on Monday.

Parliament to dissolve next week.

Brexit? Oh we've forgotten that until Friday 13th...

"you actually think I’m a Leaver don’t you?"

Tbh I don't care to the extent you post fact-based arguments that can be engaged with.

I can only react to your generally opaque posts, by asking simple questions to establish what you really think.

Based on those answers I think you are a Tory voter who is OK with no deal - but if you're not then you need to be more explicit.

Bear, you're entitled to your views but not everyone shares them. Lots of people (all the under 30s I know) are voting labour because of corbyn's policies

I never voted labour until miliband (and that was reluctant) but am a member now (I grew up with the iraq war etc and labour was rapidly deserted at that time as I remember - other people may view it differently but that's how it seemed to me)

No one is denying the polling is bad the media is worse, brexit has been incredibly destructive, and that there is loads of work to do

Anyway, who else has a feeling that the Brexit Party might just pffft into nothing this GE?

In some respects, I hope that they don't . Ideal scenario is that they split the Conservative vote yet still fail to win a seat

I’m an ex-Tory voter who thinks that, unless the opposition gets a grip, we’ll end up with the Tories again and no deal

I do also think that no deal may well be needed to start to rebuild from this mess

Perfectly happy for people to disagree but, unless their arguments translate into viable solutions, there’s not much point in just talking about what they’d like to happen

"who else has a feeling that the Brexit Party might just pffft into nothing this GE?"

Too early to say, but it would be extraordinary or even historic for a British political movement to blow up in this way.

So my guess is they'll pick up the kipper vote along with some cognitively-rigid libertarians for whom no other Brexit is a true Brexit. Maybe 8-10% of the vote (guess) - but there is time for them to turn this around with a willing media and a few johnsonian missteps.

"an ex-Tory voter "

Who's going to vote for Johnson? Do we really need the "ex"?

That's a genuine question btw not a rhetorical one.

Who's going to vote for Johnson? Do we really need the "ex"?

No I’m not

Again, I’ll ask where I’ve said that?

Unless people remove their head from their arses, discussion is a bit difficult

Again I wont take the opinion of a Tory as to who we should have as a leader

These are exactly the people you should be listening to though.
Appealing to the extremes isn't going to work.

Bear, discussion is difficult if people post in an opaque style that is difficult to engage with.

I have read your recent posts, and they read like the posts of a briefly-discouraged Tory who is now back in the fold mainly due to dislike of Corbyn (like oakenbeach, whose position at least has the merit of being clear). So maybe you need to consider actually saying what you mean? Or are you just trolling for a reaction?

Bearbehind - I’m an ex-Tory voter who thinks that, unless the opposition gets a grip, we’ll end up with the Tories again and no deal. I do also think that no deal may well be needed to start to rebuild from this mess

Isn't that totally contradictory?

Its possible that being an ex-Tory means you haven't previously been invested in the treatment of Labour leaders by the media - Milliband was flayed alive by the press in 2015, nothing he did (even grabbing a bite to eat) or had ever said or anyone he had ever met or anything to do with his family/friends was left unscathed. Same is true for Corbyn and long-term labour supporters have learned to accept it as far as possible.

"These are exactly the people you should be listening to though."

Not really ... you need to appeal to floating voters and don't knows, not Tories.

My mum's a pretty standard issue southern England floating voter who has by and large voted for the winning side in most GEs since I've been an adult. It's voters like her you have to appeal to. This time she might have voted Lab if it had been a tactical option but she will go Lib Dem or Green otherwise.

So maybe you need to consider actually saying what you mean? Or are you just trolling for a reaction?

misti I have said exactly what I mean, unfortunately you think you know better and think I’m actually going to vote Tory

I can’t really have a discussion with someone who operates from the view point that they know my mind better than I know my own can I?

I won’t vote for BJ or JC which means I’m a bit screwed - other than the fact I live in true Blue country anyway so it makes fuck all difference - the point is there are people who could stop BJ if they had an incentive to do do

Posters like just want to stop the Tories and thus Brexit whilst failing to see that many people don’t support the alternatives either

Not really ... you need to appeal to floating voters and don't knows, not Tories.

FFS - there’s no hope on here is there.

I'm, of course, hoping that the Brexit Party will split the right wing vote at least enough to ensure no Tory majority.

the point is there are people who could stop BJ if they had an incentive to do do

apparently we dont pose solutions on this thread so who in the PLP is Tory enough for you to vote for Bear? Hoey is leaving and Mann has left so who have you got left?

I find it interesting the Farage is not standing as a candidate - so that he is free to campaign up and down the country
He'd better read this guidance pretty carefully
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/2019-10/Candidate%20Part%203%202019%20UKPGE%20GB%20.pdf
As it would be such a shame if any of his winning candidates were disqualified

As another occasional ex Tory voter I cannot see any benefit to a no deal.
The point of voting conservative was fiscal stability, concerns of investments and housing values and building the economy.
A no deal does none of those things, it is hugely damaging to trade, fiscal responsibility etc.
It really isn't anything I would have thought a sane conservative could have accepted.

Farage is not standing as a candidate - so that he is free to campaign up and down the country

Which country would that be?

England?

Or will he dare venture North of the Wall again?

"there’s no hope on here is there."

In what sense? Voters whose core political principles are conservative do not seem obvious targets for a Labour Party.

Voters whose core political principles are conservative do not seem obvious targets for a Labour Party.

Voters who previously supported a more main stream Conservative party are exactly the people every other party should be targeting, because those voters have lost their ‘home’

But if you just operate under the ‘once a Tory, always a Tory’ viewpoint then I guess you won’t understand that

I think that's for longer term thinking. At the moment. Been there, done that (personally) 1997.

But if you just operate under the ‘once a Tory, always a Tory’ viewpoint then I guess you won’t understand that
Only one person seems to post along those lines

When the parties move their ethos in one direction
and a person's circumstances change
then shifts occur

In England there seems to be a significant middle ground which is comfortable with voting for either of the main parties.
Ideally a leader of either party would be able to appeal to these people.
I am struggling to see how someone who voted for Cameron would be able to vote for Corbyn. The polls would seem to confirm this.
In addition the lifelong Labour voters I know are equally off put by Corbyn. Although in fairness at least 50% are holding their nose and voting for him anyway.

Only one person seems to post along those lines

Both misti and just believe exactly that and BCF isn’t far behind

"But if you just operate under the ‘once a Tory, always a Tory’ viewpoint then I guess you won’t understand that"

That's just silly and goady though. I'm perfectly happy to debate Tories and even sometimes agree with them (reckon me and Dreichsky would share some opinions).

Remain Tories don't have a right to a party that fits their personal politics; they either stay and campaign, or compromise and join the LDs or the SNP or in some constituencies the ex Tory independent.