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Brexit

Brexiteers: please read this.

79 replies

Dusty01 · 30/10/2019 18:46

A.A. Gill (Sunday Times journalist and food critic) writing about Brexit before his death in Dec 2016.

“It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”
It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”
Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.
The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.
And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.
All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.
There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.
The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.
Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty
We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.
Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”
When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”
Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.
Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’
You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.
Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.
The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.
No time for walls: the best of Europe, from its music and food to IM Pei’s pyramid at the Louvre, depends on an easy collision of cultures
There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.
The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.
Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in.”

OP posts:
Epicwaffle · 30/10/2019 21:33

My favourite quote from that article @wimbledonna

"If he wants to know what it like to shoot a human, he should take aim at his own leg.”

SingingLily · 30/10/2019 21:46

I think he might have shot himself in the foot with his anti-Brexit diatribe, Epicwaffle.

What a loss to the Diplomatic Service he was.

GloriaTeasdale · 30/10/2019 21:52

Great writing.
First para is basically my mental image of visitors to the brexit arms 😂😂

Wimbledonna · 30/10/2019 21:54

Shame the baboons weren't armed really.

Shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but he really was a nasty, cruel supercilious dickhead. I believe he was a Corbyn fan, surprisingly.

lonelyplanetmum · 30/10/2019 21:58

Some more reading material here. They won't read it though..

www.niesr.ac.uk/eu-referendum-blogs

Epicwaffle · 30/10/2019 22:24

“Great writing.
First para is basically my mental image of visitors to the brexit arms 😂😂”

Excellent. So I have a question, which you may be able to assist with.

What’s a “national health face”? Confused Just so that I know what I’m looking for when I’m drinking in the arms. Wine

DustyDiamond · 30/10/2019 22:48

Actual lol Epic 😂

Dusty01 · 31/10/2019 00:14

I think he means the sort of face you’d see on an NHS advert or website. A kind of non offending bog standard face.

OP posts:
Dusty01 · 31/10/2019 00:16

Or I suppose because the NHS is so very English and old fashioned he means exactly that.

OP posts:
SingingLily · 31/10/2019 01:12

A kind of non offending bog standard face.

How odd, then, to sneer at a "non-offending" face and attribute such rampant xenophobia and racism to its owner. As a xenophobic, racist, homophobic animal killer himself, he was clearly projecting his own particular and horrible little hatreds onto such an ordinary face while looking down his superior little nose.

A hypocrite, then, as well as a snob and a bigot. Nice.

So why did you post this, OP? Surely you are not suggesting that he is in any way representative of all Remainers? I'm a Leaver myself but some of my family and friends voted Remain and I take umbrage on their behalf. They deserve to have their vote respected too.

Dusty01 · 31/10/2019 09:39

"The op must be a leaver surely?"

I was a leaver, you are right. I voted to leave. But I wouldn't vote the same way if I was given a second chance.

I posted this because despite being sure now that the best thing for our country would be to remain - I still am intrigued as to what all this is about. Why people have such polarised opinions. Why those on different sides are unable to see things from the other sides point of view.

I liked reading this because unlike the boring black and white slinging matches I usually read on here and everywhere else - I found this to be thought provoking and I really like the way that it is written. It may be pompous. But isn't this whole Brexit thing pompous? So the tone of this piece fits the subject.

Actually I don't think it's really sneering at anyone. What I like about it is that it's examining, in imaginative detail, the reasons why we might, as a nation, have chosen to leave.

Because despite asking Leavers that question - nobody really is ever able to give me any kind of answer.

I voted to leave as a protest vote against Austerity. I made a poorly researched, foolish impulsive last minute decision. I was duped by false advertising and fake information from the Leave side. I realise that there are other people who voted Leave for similar reasons and have also changed their minds.

So, it's the other people who voted to Leave and still hold onto that strongly held belief that I'm interested in and this piece of writing sums up what perhaps it is that they might be feeling/believing. Is nobody else intrigued to know what is going on in their minds and why we are actually doing this?

That's why I posted it.

Nobody has commented on the subject of the writing - or what AA Gill is actually saying. They've just come back with the same vitriol that I read in the Brexit Arms.

I'll try and post other things to instigate thought and conversation. Sorry if I offended anyone - I hope it's made a few people, at least, think.

OP posts:
WomanOfTime · 31/10/2019 10:05

Sneering, misogynist rubbish. Interesting to know that as a thirty-odd year old Leaver I'm now an 'oldie'. I'm not sure who the patronising phrasing and the long lists of his oh-so-cultured interests are supposed to appeal to. As a piece of persuasive writing to convince Leavers, it fails miserably. It might induce a few Remainers to give themselves pats on the back, though.

I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories.

So much conflation of issues here, but it's telling that he's in favour of mixed-sex lavatories in this Brave New World of his. He clearly doesn't understand women's liberation/second-wave feminism in the slightest and is conflating it with 'woke' culture to get some lazy stereotyping in.

There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us

How is this not doing exactly what his Little Englander strawmen are doing, except replacing 'England' with 'Europe'? This actually seems like the most offensive part. As if China (or any other non-European part of the world) doesn't have its own rich history and culture?

DustyDiamond · 31/10/2019 10:17

Because despite asking Leavers that question - nobody really is ever able to give me any kind of answer.

I did.
And others told you that they voted Leave for similar reasons to me

They've just come back with the same vitriol that I read in the Brexit Arms.

Nobody was vitriolic to you.

Indeed, there's very little 'vitriol' there.

Unless someone is a regular goady shitposter of course - they get ignored mostly but occasionally leave posters bite back (understandably I think)

Epicwaffle · 31/10/2019 10:24

“I was a leaver, you are right. I voted to leave. But I wouldn't vote the same way if I was given a second chance. “

Cool story bro.

Brabinger · 31/10/2019 11:07

National Health face = age demographic (post WW2) plus connotations of staidness, conformity, middle of the road respectability...god its not that hard to understand is it?

Epicwaffle · 31/10/2019 12:09

“National Health face = age demographic (post WW2) plus connotations of staidness, conformity, middle of the road respectability...god its not that hard to understand is it?”

Thanks, that actually cleared it up nicely. So, as I suspected, misogynistic, ageist, classist, bourgeois bollocks then?

BeerandBiscuits · 31/10/2019 12:13

What a complete load of sneering bolox.
Every remainer should read this and have a good think about their attitude to those who make different choices.

ForeverFaff · 31/10/2019 12:19

I got a few lines in and stopped reading. He has dressed up his hatred of the lower classes in a veneer of fancy words and political spin.

It's the same as when fox hunting toffs start whipping the protesters, how dare these little oiks be seen and heard!

I'm glad the the silenced 'Hoi polloi' are not giving up on this.

Dusty01 · 31/10/2019 12:23

Did you not get as far as "middle-class, middle-brow"?

That's not even three lines in ...

OP posts:
ForeverFaff · 31/10/2019 12:31

Middle is still lower than upper. The sneering attitude clearly shows his opinion that they are a 'lesser' people than himself.
And given that it is a mumsnet 'fact' that the lower classes, and uneducated among the populace are more likely to be leave voters, why has he chosen to depict the stereotypical '(wo)man on the street' as middle class??

I guess we are all one humongous mass of 'the great unwashed' to him.

TheGirlFromStoryville · 31/10/2019 12:33

I often think of Orwell when I hear middle class concern for the poor.

"The truth is that, to many people calling themselves Socialists, revolution does not mean a movement of the masses with which they hope to associate themselves; it means a set of reforms which 'we', the clever ones, are going to impose upon 'them', the Lower Orders."

The Road to Wigan Pier, 1937.

Epicwaffle · 31/10/2019 12:36

I really ought to read Wigan pier girl. I’m an Orwell fan, but that one has eluded me thus far.

Off to amazon I go!

Dusty01 · 31/10/2019 12:40

"given that it is a mumsnet 'fact' that the lower classes, and uneducated among the populace are more likely to be leave voters,"

Is it a mumsnet ''fact"? I didn't know that. Where have you seen that/got that idea from?

When I read the Brexit Arms I always envisage lots of women like Amanda in "Motherland" talking.

Having said that I personally didn't think class had anything to do with who voted to Leave. To me class has nothing to do with intelligence. Look at Boris and the people in government at the moment. They are all Upper class. Are they more intelligent than the rest of us?

Maybe that's why I don't interpret this as sneering. I think the writer is just personifying an attitude. Which is the Brexit one.

OP posts:
LouiseCollins28 · 31/10/2019 12:47

It comes across as very sneering to me, maybe that's just A.A. Gill's style, he's not a writer I know much about. Gill in this article has clearly got an understandable affection for Europe and seemingly by extension the EU.

For all his imaginative ability though, I think Gill’s weakness is his failure to even imagine the life of someone for whom this Union doesn’t work and in who’s interests it is designed not to. His further failure is that he seems to chastise others for having the temerity to even want something different.

He seems to be saying “well it works for me!” from a position of enormous privilege.

Wimbledonna · 31/10/2019 12:51

And do you also agree with what Gill says about the Chinese?
He's a racist mysogynist who thinks he's clever.
He also shot a defenceless primate for fun so he can fuck right off and take his sneering opinions with him.

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