The Brexit Elephant in the Room

[twofingerstoEverything]

Will a time ever come when Brexit supporters will acknowledge that one of the reasons why we still have not Brexited is because there's no way of delivering the various - and sometimes conflicting - promises that were made by Leave campaign groups; that there is no way of leaving the EU without causing damage and chaos; and that if there was a way, it should have been identifiable by now and easy to promote to the British public?

All I've seen is denial and blame. I have never read or heard any Leave supporter acknowledge the very real difficulties inherent in attempting to deliver something that meant different things to different people.

Excellent article on this here. I particularly agree with this bit: Brexit won the vote. But it’s an ideology not a policy. When its supporters tried to turn it into policies, as they are still trying to do, it fell apart.

Yeah well being stripped of my say and my rights makes me a bit sweary. Bite me.

Glad you are back Firerumpus, even if it did take you more than a day to provide a list of soundbites.
What I was hoping for was 'this law prevents me from doing...' not Daily Mail/Express blah.

The only one I can agree with is 3). Yes, it's provided Governments with a bloody good excuse, the EU won't let us do blah, blah, blah, when it's really, 'We in Westminster have caused this'.

More money for the NHS? How and when did the EU stop the Govt prioritising the NHS over tax cuts for the wealthy, Trident, HS2?

Furthermore, someone like my DB, who voted Remain as it happens, can quote laws concerning transport and working time directives, which haven't been helpful. But, as he pointed out to me - various people made representations to the Westminster Govt to say 'this could be improved by...' to be told to 'Get lost. We are not making any representations.' The chance of whinging about EU laws was too good an opportunity for them to miss.

Or for example, one of my own from the EU elections. 'EU law doesn't allow exit polls', we were told. The Dutch had their elections on the same day, and published exit polls. How come? Because the UK, bringing in EU law, had put in a few extra refinements of its own, and it was UK law which didn't allow exit polls, as the Dutch had just shown. That's a relatively trivial example, but it's been enough to make me ask, 'Is this EU law? Or is this Westminster playing anti-EU silly buggers again?'

Peregrina - there is no need to try to be rude. I post when it’s convenient about things I want to post about. I posted my key concerns. You don’t like them. We differ on that. It does not make my concerns any less valid.

Wesh - I suggest directing your anger at those responsible rather than me. I have been nothing but courteous.

I don't call telling someone that in my opinion they have posted a list of soundbites, rude. And fine to post a list when it's convenient, but I really would have thought that it would have been possible to come up with more specific examples.

I have posted two examples, (when it was convenient for me to do so). Actual examples of where the Govt has used the 'The EU doesn't let us' excuse.

So when you say 'Fortress Europe' what do you mean? When you talk about 'Common purpose', what do you mean there?

Just because something is a little abstract doesn’t make it a sound bite. Fortress Europe - google it - examine the way the EU has treated non-European migrants. I have grave concerns about that.
Lack of common purpose - this is a social trend that goes back to the 1980s I think. The traditional left wing have failed to represent their traditional supporters. Labour has betrayed its working class roots. Many of those voters who are perceived as apathetic feel disconnected from technocratic politicians. The breakdown of communities is both an abstract and very real thing. Many many people feel that the current political situation leaves them behind, ignores them, they feel patronised and sidelined by it. They feel that many politicians serve themselves even if well-intentioned. In short they feel powerless. Disenfranchised and angry. The referendum was an opportunity to express that. Even though many people feared they would be ignored. They took a risk and engaged. This is an opportunity to ask communities to start again. To have proper open discussions about the future of our country and how the marginalised can be brought back into the centre. It raised possibilities and expectations. Made politics appealing again. By trying to scupper it, we risk losing all that potential. Even the amount of energy of that has gone into Leave voters how wrong they were my have had that effect. I don’t believe it is too late but I do believe the damage that may be caused by failure will be significant.

It’s the ‘even if it did take you ...’ that is designed to be rude, I think, or at least patronising.

Back home now, so to answer:

Is the UK any more welcoming to migrants that the EU?

Labour yes, I think probably has betrayed its working class roots, but how is that the responsibility of the EU and how would leaving the EU address that?

To have proper open discussions about the future of our country and how the marginalised can be brought back into the centre.

I agree, but who exactly is going to initiate this debate? It's certainly not coming from Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson, both wealthy old Etonians who have very little idea of how ordinary people live, and even if they were minded to do so, wouldn't have a clue as to where to start. They don't use state schools, or public transport or libraries, and will be wealthy enough to buy private care for elderly relatives, so don't don't know (and don't care) just how stretched public facilities have become.