Thank God for Gina Miller, willing to stand up for democracy.

[ssd]

Well seeing she's a woman.

Just saying

I think Gina Miller is fab, and it's one of the few positive side effects of the nightmare we're living in that stroppy people (people who, to be perfectly honest, that if we met them in normal times we might consider to be a bit up themselves) step up and come into their own and have the resilience to keep pushing.

I can't fathom how posters can twist their logic and thinking around this making it into a good thing.

Frankly for the first time I'm worried too.
This is the most insidious, rotting stalling of a vote taken in good faith by millions of people.
I know many Remainers on here seem radicalised and can think of nothing else but there is more at stake than brexit itself.

The blind reckless faith in the eu project is cult like. No one can reassure me about Italian debt, stability, political transparency, corruption nothing.
We get weazel words and side stepping the issue. Think very carefully about wanting to stop brexit and the vote. One day it will be your vote that you think is on the winning side.... And yet... Your vote will be snatched from your hand by goodness knows who.

Because the eu, as much as its failing is morphing, larger and larger with no systems or structures to support its weight.

When the eu fails we have.. More eu. With closer union, an army on the cards, talk of empires.. And a lurch to the right.. Who the hell knows what it's going to be.

Frankly for the first time I'm worried too.

You're worried that we have an independent judiciary?

You're worried that the Prime Minister is subject to the law like everyone else?

You're worried that our elected Parliament can't just be ignored?

Or you're worried that you don't have a good enough understanding of the UK constitution?

To paraphrase the previous post.

To prorogue Parliament in this underhand way, was the most insidious, rotting stalling of parliamentary representation -silencing MPs elected in good faith by millions of people.

Hoc is checks and balance system.

Mps should have got behind the vote as Democrats. They should have committed to the vote and done their best to get us the best deal, stragety holding thier noses if neccsary.
They have not done that and now they have openly declared they want to stop brexit..

So what happens when parliament goes directly agaisnt the will, vote of the people?

So what happens when parliament goes directly against the will, vote of the people?

Return to civil wars.

Agree OP, and for the court outcome being so clear

I can't fathom how posters can twist their logic and thinking around this making it into a bad thing

Leavers should be pleased about this - it’s what they voted for apparently - parliamentary sovereignty is upheld, democracy defended. They would be up in arms if corbyn had tried to prorogue parliament for similar reasons, and should be horrified that Johnson tried to do the same in their names. Leavers have been accusing remainers of “picking and choosing” democracy when it suits them, but it turns out many leavers are hypocritical about it. The leave camp have let leave voters down so badly

It’s interesting how Leavers always see the referendum in terms of winning. Many young people didn’t vote and their views were not heard. They will be paying for these mistakes and to have not had a 60/40 vote margin was ludicrous. It should possibly have been mandatory to vote. The “winners” are probably not a majority at all. No wonder there cannot be consensus with this use of language still to the fore.

I never saw much wrong with an EU Army. At least we wouldn’t have been involved in so many conflicts as a major, lapdog, supporter of the USA if this had been the case.

Again, @MysteryTripAgain what time zone are you in casually making silly threats like that?

It should possibly have been mandatory to vote

What prevents people from spoiling the ballot paper by ticking all options?

The court ruling was to decide on whether or not Johnson's decision to prorogue was lawful. Judges made it clear before the hearings began that the ruling was not to comment on the merits of Brexit.

Again, @MysteryTripAgain what time zone are you in casually making silly threats like that?

Not making threats, but expressing a view as to what might happen when governments ignore votes.

People do know that government and parliament are two different things, yes?

the two words are not interchangeable, and it would be good to keep straight exactly who is being accused of being undemocratic

Yesterday parliamentary democracy was upheld. How Brexiteers can complain at this, given their really cry of sovereignty, astounds me.
The referendum presented poorly defined choices. The tory government twisted that into an undeliverable hard Brexit and risk no deal as the only deliverable option. Parliment is not frustrating Brexit it's frustrating those who wish to twist brexit into the most damaging version possibly out of personal expediency or gain. What we need is a vote on the only deliverable options - disastrous no deal or remain.

Gina Miller is amazing!

Side note: it's almost hilarious to me, an African expat in the UK, to see a country that made its wealth via stealing resources from all over the world cry to want to be left alone.

Anyway, I thought the fake prorogation "had nothing to do with Brexit"

I agree Gina Miller is a hero. I was thinking this all day yesterday, I assume she personally funds her legal challenges which essentially just ensure that we (the government) are following our own laws. What a truly brilliant and selfless act.
As for Boris who claims that proroguing parliament was unrelated to brexit, he's talked about nothing else since!!!

So what time zone are you in @MysteryTripAgain ?

I saw a couple of hilarious comments yesterday about “appeal and appeal until you get what you want”. Forgetting that the reason the Scottish judgement was before the Supreme Court was because the government was appealing it!

I agree Gina Miller is a hero. I was thinking this all day yesterday, I assume she personally funds her legal challenges which essentially just ensure that we (the government) are following our own laws. What a truly brilliant and selfless act.
Her legal challenges are crowd-funded by ordinary people like you and me.

So what time zone are you in @MysteryTripAgain ?

What is your fascination with time zones? How does it contribute to the thread?

But who's standing up for all those that voted to leave?

Gina and Joanna. Not agreeing with their politics is irrelevant- in law the PM can only close parliament for a few days.

If the PM gets the unilateral power to stop all legislation, all votes, all debates and all committee work indefinitely them we are no longer a proper democracy.

If the public feel that MPs are not doing a good job, they can be voted out. Giving one person power to overrule the law us not a sensible solution. Imagine Jeremy Corbyn with such unfettered power.

I'm curious to know whether your devotion to No Deal is part of a virtual board game you are playing. Where none of it would directly affect you. You could have faked a uk location yonks ago and claimed you were up all night with a poorly child. We get a lot of Australasian/US visitors to these threads claiming some heartfelt opinions about things that don't actually affect them.

If the public feel that MPs are not doing a good job, they can be voted out

That is why Labour and LibDems don't want a General Election. They know they will be given their P45's.

I'm curious to know whether your devotion to No Deal is part of a virtual board game you are playing

Wonder if someone creates a board game called Brexit? Maybe monopoly has been around too long now?

We get a lot of Australasian/US visitors to these threads claiming some heartfelt opinions about things that don't actually affect them

Maybe they have relatives in EU?

Use of the word "we" is interesting. Maybe you think MN is your own personal board? Thought Bear and Yadid had explained otherwise?