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Brexit

Westminstenders: Constitutional History

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2019 14:57

The Supreme Court case continues
(ruling possible Friday but likely Monday)

The new NI proposal is bollocks and Johnson didn't get why until it was discussed in Europe.

There was a press conference in Luxembourg which looks good for Johnson.

Johnsons approval ratings are up.

And we are making no obvious progress to anything but no deal...

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Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 08:38

Paul Waugh@paulwaugh
.@tom_watson to @bbcnickrobinson “Jeremy can stop it if he wants to this morning. I’m sure he’s been reflecting on it overnight.”

And in the perfect analogy for Labour's fratricide, adds: “He’s not called me, although he would have found it hard to get me last night because I was playing Super Smash Bros with a 14-year-old for most of the evening..”

Gauntlet thrown down to Corbyn. Ball firmly with Corbyn to either denounce or go along with motion with whatever bullshit he decides to...

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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 08:42

Again look at his media briefing and twitter account and also wind your neck in

Look at his spin doctors response and conveniently forget his prominent role in the stop the war coalition for the Iraq war.

OK then.

Thats me told.

No I will not 'wind my neck in'

I will point out hypocrisy and nonsense whether it fits with your political view point or not.

We should call it out against both our political opponents AND our political allies. Cos its healthy to do so.

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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 08:44

Stella creasy @ stellacreasy
Let me get this straight - the head of a private organisation that isn’t affiliated to Labour, not content with shutting down the students voice, is now seeking to abolish a democratically elected position via a backroom vote. Party democracy- as long as you agree with them ey…

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NoWordForFluffy · 21/09/2019 08:46

For someone who's not defending the move, you're really rather passionate about defending it, Poster.

And that was VERY rude towards RTB. I suggest an apology is in order. Or maybe winding your neck in, eh?!

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 08:46

There is of course this...

Sam Freedman @samfr
Do we think Labour moderates will take the defenestration of Tom Watson as an opportunity to:

A) finally get the hell out of their train wreck of a party or

B) send some very cross tweets?

David Parry @davidparry100
I think this is so serious that this time they’re going to go straight to the nuclear option and write a letter to the Guardian

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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 08:54

Rachel Wearmouth @REwearmouth
One Labour MP says if the NEC pushes ahead with its plan to oust Watson, there will be a leadership challenge

Overnight, 35 MPs have signed up to forcing a leadership challenge if Watson motion goes ahead, one MP tells me. 49 needed.

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Labour MPs threatening a leadership election 40 days out from possible no-deal... hmmmm. Last leadership election took two and a half months

I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry at this utter bullshit.

We have the Supreme Court shit next week. If the SC rule that prorogation is unlawful, then what?

The idea of any unity against the Cons and No Deal looks EVEN MORE batshit. Corbyn agreed on as an interim PM?

Are you having a laugh?

And therein looks the point to me. It almost feels like a deliberate Lexiter strategy.

It's bonkers. Absolutely bonkers.

Westminstenders: Constitutional History
Westminstenders: Constitutional History
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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 08:56

From that well known centrist Paul Mason

Paul mason @ paulmasonnews
A message to Labour's NEC: stop playing bureaucratic games. Lay off @tom_watson and let conference debate our Brexit line democratically. We need a collegiate, open leadership - a conference that speaks to the whole British electorate - and an end to machine politics.

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NoWordForFluffy · 21/09/2019 08:57

Every time Labour make me go 🤦‍♀️, they then manage to surpass it with something a bit more 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ a bit later. WTAF is wrong with them?! It's almost like they don't want to be in government with their self-sabotage.

How anyone in their right mind can vote for them in this state is mind-boggling.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 08:57

Rob Powell @robpowellnews
Right, now i'm completely lost. Dawn Butler tells Sky that she doesn't want to speculate about whether Tom Watson's role will be abolished and if we keep going down the speculation route then "we're going to create some sort of AI vision of the party" 🤔

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borntobequiet · 21/09/2019 09:07

Wish I’d thought of this for the Predictions thread.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 09:09

Meanwhile back in the land of the sane (that's not the UK obviously)

Tony Connelly @tconnellyrte
Are we any closer to a breakthrough in the Brexit negotiations? Here’s my take on another bruising week.
www.rte.ie/amp/1077263/?__twitter_impression=true
Brexit: The perils of progress on the backstop

Quotes from article
One source described the ideas as "totally insane".

And

"What they're putting forward don’t even meet any of the three objectives in the backstop," said one official.

And

A senior EU official said: "The Barclay speech was designed to be provocative, divisive and misleading."

And

"We have four weeks before the European Council and we don’t have the slightest concrete element to work on," says a senior EU official.

And

"[London] had done such a good job of talking up the idea that, at the very least, they were prepared to live with no deal," says a senior Irish official, "that a lot of people felt that's what they actually want. So what was the point of negotiating?"

And

"If we got a deal, maybe this group and then that group might come on board. But they would probably only do so if they were sure the other groups did it as well. No-one will move unless they’re 100% confident that the deal will pass. They would look stupid if they moved only for the deal to fail."

And this significant bit

Robbins has been replaced by David Frost, an old hand in Brussels but who is of different outlook and temperament.

But more importantly, the reporting structures have changed.

Olly Robbins was given a degree of negotiating leeway by Theresa May. He reported directly to her, and to Number 10. May’s cabinet, made up as it was of former Remainers such as Philip Hammond and Greg Clark, was there to endorse what she was putting forward, based on her back and forth with Robbins.

However, David Frost is under much tighter constraints, not from Boris Johnson alone but from the Brexit cabinet subcommittee, known as XS.

That sub-committee, headed by Johnson but also including hardliners Michael Gove and Dominic Raab, has a greater steering role than the previous cabinet in how the negotiations are conducted.

"You’re talking about former Conservative hopefuls," says one EU source. "They all have reputations. They all have to think about what comes next. They all have Brexiteer credentials which matter to them."

That limits the room for manoeuvre for British negotiators, with the parameters being set, according to the source, by the "electoral reality and what the Tory electoral market will bear".

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TheElementsSong · 21/09/2019 09:11

How anyone in their right mind can vote for them in this state is mind-boggling.

I was wavering about where to place my vote in the inevitable coming GE. We're in a Lab/LD swing seat, currently have a very active Labour MP. As things stand with this week's Lab conference implosion, I'm going to be voting LD.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 09:15

Tim Shipman@shippersunbound
Ex McDonnell spinner says there is nothing to see here. Watson is “a bubble story”. That bubble you can see is a mushroom cloud

Kevin Schofield@polhomeeditor
Tom Watson has been told he can’t dial in to this morning’s Labour NEC meeting. He’s in Manchester with his son so can’t be there.

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
NEW: Labour insider tells me it’s the unions who will tip the balance today against Tom Watson. Remember they’d approved Labour’s Brexit policy at TUC conference just a day or so before Tom Watson made his own speech suggesting it should be torn up - clashing with Keir Starmer.

NEC needs a simple majority in favour of abolishing the role of deputy leader for Tom Watson to be ousted. Unless the motion is ruled out of order again (like last night) in which they’ll need a 2/3 majority to rule it back in order.

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cherin · 21/09/2019 09:16

nowordsforfluffy
That
Absolutely
Self sabotage

Idiots!!! Their ONE chance to have a party conference and a party policy that finally gets clear, and gets them votes, and they fuck it up like that? Their only hope is that the media will not report it so much and not every voter has Twitter. Still.
They don’t really care about the country, if that’s the energy they put in wargaming between themselves

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 09:17

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/albertonardelli/eu-thinks-johnson-brexit-non-papers?__twitter_impression=true
This Is What The EU Thinks Of Boris Johnson’s Brexit Proposals
A diplomatic note seen by BuzzFeed News reveals that European officials believe documents sent by the PM contain only "concepts" that are "not detailed".

This is the BuzzFeed version of the RTE story above.

Alberto Nardelli @albertonardelli
The UK, via David Frost, also explained that it had yet to set out its full approach and that further papers outlining this would be shared with the EU at the “right moment”.

Peter Foster@pmdfoster
Which per UK statement is only when the EU has agreed in-principle that MaxFac/customs checks set back from the border are acceptable in Northern Ireland...

Which @simoncoveney and @MichelBarnier readout to EU27 ambos clearly says they are not.

So BuzzFeed is saying almost the exact same thing as RTE...

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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 09:20

Tim Shipman@shippersunbound
The Tories said they wouldn't adhere to the usual rules of not trying to overshadow Labour's conference. Unless Boris Johnson invades Iran, they're going to have to go some...

*passes around gasmasks, hard helmets and nuclear survival leaflets whilst stockpiling even more frantically...

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cherin · 21/09/2019 09:20

My LabourMP is really good and I was planning to vote for her again. I have no idea who the local candidate for LD could be. And I fear about the lack of programme post brexit. Assuming they get in (which isn’t going I happen, I think, but weirder things have happened....) what’s their plan afterwards? But it’s not going to happen....

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 09:21

Tom Hamilton @thhamilton
Big shift in position by the leadership-controlled NEC: moving in just a year from thinking deputy leader is such an important position that there should be two of them, to thinking it’s such an unimportant position that there should be none of them.

I expect this change in thinking about the optimal constitutional structure is principled and consistent and well thought through.

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TokyoSushi · 21/09/2019 09:22

Ah excellent day to be stuck in watching the news and lookimg after little Tokyopup, now is the time that the Labour Party should be saying 'look at us, how fabulous, and together, and grown up and sensible we are' but no, total fuckwittery instead!

TokyoSushi · 21/09/2019 09:23

Come on Tom, form your own party and beat them all!!

thecatfromjapan · 21/09/2019 09:29

I'm furious about this.

Tom Watson has consistently spoken out for Remain - that's the ground of most of his 'disloyalty' - a position he holds along with the majority of the membership.

The LOTO has had to be pulled kicking and screaming to that.

This is all about the succession.

And, frankly, I don't want to see weak puppets Laura Pidcock or Rebecca Long-Bailey imposes from above, who will obediently do as they're told - whilst leading Labour into electoral oblivion.

I'm furious.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2019 09:31

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
BREAKING: Understand Gordon Brown is now making private representations to Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell. He’s telling them every former leader and various deputies will publicly condemn the move to oust Tom Watson if it goes ahead. Some speculation Corbyn might stop this.

This row is drawing in every major figure in the Labour Party past and present. Unless the motion is pulled, this really could turn in to the final bloody battle in Labour that’s been building for years.

Blair has already stuck his oar in.

Sky News Breaking @skynewsbreak
Former Prime Minister Tony Blair says the move to abolish the post of deputy leader would be "undemocratic, damaging and politically dangerous" and "to suggest it at this time shows a quite extraordinary level of destructive sectarianism"

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
NEW: Understand several members of shadow cabinet on manoeuvres to try and kill the motion against Tom Watson before it gets to NEC.

Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has texted MPs saying “I’m on the case”.

Huge wheels turning this morning. A large and substantial group of Labour MPs currently weighing up what to do if Tom Watson is ousted. Stay and fight on, or leave on mass.

This really is a watershed moment for Labour Party, bigger even than attempt to challenge Corbyn in 2016.

Dan Hodges @DPJHodges
Sorry to bang on about this. But the most amazing thing about this Watson defenestration is the timing. Have the Corbynites not seen what's been happening to Boris and the Tories over the past couple of weeks? Have they not heard an election's coming? It's utterly staggering.

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Letseatgrandma · 21/09/2019 09:32

Have the Corbynites not seen what's been happening to Boris and the Tories over the past couple of weeks? Have they not heard an election's coming? It's utterly staggering.

Exactly! I can only think that it’s deliberate??

TokyoSushi · 21/09/2019 09:33

I don't think it'll get to the NEC, I think John McDonnell will stop it, but goodness knows what the fallout is going to be.

TokyoSushi · 21/09/2019 09:37

Google tells me that the vote to abolish the Deputy Leader post is at 10am

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