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Brexit

Is we have an extension to Brexit does the Lisbon Treating come into force on the 1st November?

26 replies

yellowallpaper · 10/09/2019 12:07

Sorry about my total ignorance, but DH says the LT takes over and we can't leave anyway.

I have no idea what it's all about and what the LT involves.

Please enlighten me

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 13:21

There are a few typos in your post so it's hard to work out but does this help?
fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/

MrsMaiselsMuff · 10/09/2019 13:28

The Lisbon Treaty has been in effect since 2009.

Lost for words.

DorisDaysDadsDogsDead · 10/09/2019 13:35

So much bullshit spouted by Quitlings about the Lisbon Treaty.

As above, it's been in effect for 10 years!

fessmess · 10/09/2019 13:37

Jesus

Thereisasystem · 10/09/2019 13:41

🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

MrsMaiselsMuff · 10/09/2019 13:48

Can I ask where you look for sources of information @yellowallpaper? You might want to think about what other information you've taken as fact, it's quite likely that much of it is bollocks.

Thereisasystem · 10/09/2019 14:00

It was on FB wasn't it for a while...that whole Lisbon Treaty crap meme thing. .

MrsMaiselsMuff · 10/09/2019 14:03

Still going round. Worrying how people take everything they read as fact.

yellowallpaper · 10/09/2019 14:21

I don't take everything for fact ffs. It's why I'm asking. Don't bother with any more so called answers and similar put downs. I've avoided all the briexit shite as I have better things to think about but feel I want some clarity as it reaches the end of the line. Especially as we will probably have a second referendum. Faced with this much hostility I probably won't bother again.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 14:24

@yellowallpaper , I hope you have your clarity now. It's a nonsense Brexiteer thing . One of the things that got us into this mess. And I don't think you can take much umbrage at people being pig sick of it still getting support.
Great for asking but I hope you realise you should have been asking this before the referendum.
Brexit isn't happening to other people. It's happening to you.

yellowallpaper · 10/09/2019 17:12

I have tried at times to keep up the the Brexit thing but there are so many twists and turns and misinformation. This Lisbon Treaty thing DH read and relayed it to me and it did surprise me as there is nothing on the main news. So I followed the link and let DH know it's a load of internet shite. It's beyond ridiculous that all this nonsense is being put out there.

I do know about the backstop though

OP posts:
Thereisasystem · 10/09/2019 17:31

yellowwallpaper sorry, I know you asked a question and maybe we shouldn't have been so harsh, but it's the glib acceptance of this kind of info that is so worrying and what is keeping us in this holding pattern. If only people would be a bit more cynical and questioning then these bits of misinformation wouldn't take such a hold on so many of us. Sorry you got a hard time, it is good to ask questions 😊

Mistigri · 10/09/2019 18:35

I really don't understand why people are so agressive.

It is absolutely fine to not know what the Lisbon treaty is or does. Out in the real world I can barely think of anyone who does.

And it is far better to ask rather than swallow Facebook propaganda uncritically.

yellowallpaper · 10/09/2019 20:34

Ahhh. Thank you. I'll carry on asking questions. All we need now is an answer to the whole awful mess!

OP posts:
Socksontheradiator · 10/09/2019 21:27

I didn't know about that either OP. I think sometimes people forget that we don't all have a good handle on politics and are just trying to learn and keep up.

berlinbabylon · 10/09/2019 21:56

Just to say the other nonsense that is going around relates to an alleged EU army. Please look for reputable sources about that too.

MysteryTripAgain · 11/09/2019 05:01

It is absolutely fine to not know what the Lisbon treaty is or does. Out in the real world I can barely think of anyone who does

Bit like the GFA. On holiday at the moment in Beijeng, China. Several locals asked what was happening in Europe and what is a Brexit. So I gave a simple explanation of Europe. Most struggled with the idea of 28 countries, that each that have different languages, cultures and currencies, could ever work effectively as a group. Good point I thought

One asked why it was taking so long as people said leave in 2016. So I gave a simple explanation of the border issues on the island of Ireland and that EU rules and GFA conflict. When asked to say what was a GFA and I gave the reply, Good Friday Agreement, the response from one local was, is that when parents and relatives buy chocolate eggs for children? Sounded funny at the time.

Similarly in Delhi, India, last year. None of the locals had heard of GFA. When I was asked to explain, none understood that the island of Ireland is actually two different Countries.

So while EU and UK might like to think they are the centre of the World, it does not appear to be a view shared by the rest of the World

jasjas1973 · 11/09/2019 07:25

Yes @Mysterytripe China solved their equivalent of NI/ROI issues by by taking over the regions in question and shipping their inhabitants to re-education camps.... maybe thats a solution? and all without telling their peoples!
Chinese news media is censored, so not surprising few knew anything about GFA

India? perhaps you should have pointed them to their very own kashmir situation?

But i doubt you can understand how NATO countries manage to work together, despite different languages, cultures blah blah blah..... perhaps much like the EU, there is common interest?

MysteryTripAgain · 11/09/2019 15:13

@JagAss1973

What has NATO got to do with GFA

MrsTerryPratchett · 11/09/2019 15:21

Most struggled with the idea of 28 countries, that each that have different languages, cultures and currencies, could ever work effectively as a group. Good point I thought

There are almost 300 living languages in China. And many many different cultures.

MysteryTripAgain · 11/09/2019 15:34

@ferrycatchit

There are almost 300 living languages in China. And many many different cultures

But do they all know that?

Apileofballyhoo · 13/09/2019 11:33

yellow Flowers Keep asking questions. I'm Irish (not from Northern Ireland) and I didn't pay much attention to the referendum in 2016 as I had a lot of other stuff going on. DH is really interested in politics so he stayed up all night to watch it. I got up in the morning and I was so upset the people of the UK had been fooled by Leave lies. But I didn't immediately think of NI and the UK/Irish border and I thought it would be a soft Brexit. I thought the Single Market and the Customs Union were kind of the same thing.

To be honest I voted against one of the treaties Ireland signed when we had the first referendum on it, but our government went back to the EU and got things changed so I voted for it the next time (as far as I remember we were going to lose our EU commissioner). We also got an independent booklet explaining everything from both sides. For one of the referendums there was a lot of lies about an EU Army and stuff like that.

We don't have referendums here to check public opinion. We have referendums when the consent of the people is required to change our constitution, which is a written one. So the question does have a yes/no answer - but it's "do you agree to change this "bit of formal legal text" to this "bit of formal legal text". And we get independent booklets before hand explaining what the things mean and the consequences of each thing.

We're so used to elections not really changing much in daily life (until your family is affected by cuts) that a vote one way or other doesn't seem to make much difference. But in the UK the 2016 referendum will make and has already made a huge difference and it will likely get worse when the UK exits. I think people have trouble accepting that, they just don't really see what it all means.

In Ireland we're happy to be an equal partner in the EU. We were not treated well as part of the UK and we wanted to be a country ourselves. In the EU we're a country like all the other countries. Equal. Sometimes I wonder if this is what people who led the UK Leave campaign were unhappy with, that the UK was equal to other countries rather than on an upper "in charge" level. Of course France, Germany and the UK had a bigger voice in lots of ways because of numbers of population and much larger economies. Doesn't bother me, it is what it is.

We also have a healthy attitude in Ireland of it being a good thing the EU has a strong legal status so our own government can't fuck things up too much, so the environment is protected, and the economy is protected to a certain extent. I've got no problem with the economic bailout for the banks and paying it back, the banks and Irish people went nuts. Maybe people will think twice the next time. And the EU makes it much easier for us to trade, everything is all set up already.

I also think it makes people more aware of what other countries do, so for example, childcare costs are very very reasonable in Germany, and life long renting is a secure choice there as tenants' rights are very good. Perhaps this is another reason the powers in the UK wanted out and the press have been against the EU, they don't want people to start comparing what other countries do for their people compared to the UK. I'm always shocked at how low benefits are in the UK compared to ours.

Anyway, they are just thoughts. It's never too late to all questions.

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 14/09/2019 11:40

Thanks for asking the question @yellowallpaper
I’d not even heard of the Lisbon Treaty and am happy to be educated with the facts.

yellowallpaper · 14/09/2019 20:38

We need a referendum with a credible deal (soft Brexit/Norway) and Remain the options, and get some honesty from all sides. I have friends who are Remainers and leavers and I flip flop between the two. I'm pretty hopeless Grin

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 15/09/2019 00:06

A referendum on Remain versus a credible deal sounds good to me.

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